Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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It's not being sold in Ann Summers.

We were discussing the online advert.

imnot as I said earlier, my self-esteem/respect was very high and I had no problem at all in saying no to something I didn't want to do. The problem was with my own personal perception of what it was I did and didn't want to do, and that was influenced by wider social pressure (far more so than by individual partners).

OK linerunner sold by Ann Summers, apologies.
Still back to environment, me and my Girlfriends were of the same environmental background and never felt pressure to behave in a certain way, unless we wanted to. And hence the problem lay with the individual as you state wider society than individual partner, so the man not to blame but the woman's perception of something that does not exist perhaps in the man's mind.

I think that the issue of wider social pressure / where does desire come from / the origins of wishes / the role of imagery in what becomes normal in society, have been discussed a lot of this thread, if it is read in its entirety.

Imnot I am no push over at all. People would describe me as someone who very much knows her own mind and doesn't take much shit. When I was a teenager, like most teenagers, I wanted to be rebellious and sock it to the system. My older ex used this beautifully. I had sex early to be rebellious, he took me round Amsterdam to show me the shops, the cinemas, the shows etc to show we what the cool rebellious ones were doing sexually. It worked a treat. All teens that are strong minded are still working within parameters of what is 'normal', be that mainstream 'normal' or edgy 'normal'. Being strong minded does not immunise you from society's messages on that front. To be immune up those messages would involve being outside of society in some way. Those people are usually described as 'odd balls' or suchlike not strong minded. Whilst its great up bring up girls to know their minds, be confident etc I can tell you first hand this does not immunise them from the messages they are getting.

If you feel that was a personal attack then you are free to report it.

Rather it was some advice that if you keep writing such aggressive posts, especially targeting one poster, I can assure you that any postive influce you may have will prematurely end.

No one responds well to that.

It's common sense.

Star was that to me, did not realise being aggressive and if so apologies. Alice I understand what you saying and realise that happens sometimes and your first hand experience is valid in educating girls of the dangers. I do hope our openness with our DDS will enable conversation if anything arises.

Thanks Imnot. Yes when I try and think what would have helped me, and what would I do different with mine, openness would be up there.

No, another poster imnot

Sorry for any confusion

Starwisher, please be fair, you have variously alluded to posters as being elitist, snobby, superior, disappointing and hostile. You come across as having ignored many posts which have tried to engage with you, and accused others of fabricating and writing aggressive posts and of targetting you. It's not helpful.

I've understoof Beachcomber's arguments without any difficulty throughout the thread.

I've generally found the debate interesting. And it is better to police our own debates than to depend on reporting of posters. I hope that actual debate can continue.

AliceHurled that's a very good point you make in your post of 13.45, about being confident not immunising you from the messages you are getting.

Perhaps you should take your own advice Starwisher.

I'm not the one making personal attacks by calling people elitist, snobbish, of a hostile nature and superior. Nor am I accusing them of showing a disappointing attitude and telling them they are not worth listening to as a result.

Linerunner

How is asking if I ( mentioned by name) wants a spade not personally targeting me?

Its not an attack to say someone is hostile, when they are.... Well hostile

It's not an attack that an apology be greeted with posts such as "that old chestnut" etc

It is disappointing an apology could not be taken in the spirit intended

Imnotyourmum - the problem with saying that the issue is with women rather than men and all you need is a bit of confidence and self esteem is that these can be eroded (and not necessarily by direct influences on sex e.g. losing a job may make you more vulnerable or a death of a close relative). That is a lot of responsibility on a young woman's head and no responsibilty for those trying to push her boundaries. Abusers can target confident women with a view to breaking them down.

The problem is always with the abuser and the person doing the pressuring. And add to the mix the fact that society is telling both the perpetrator and the victim that it is normal, then any boundaries you may have will be more easily eradicated.

Sorry beachcomber but I'm yet to see anyone get taken seriously employing methods that you have

Simply counter productive

I think the spade remark, Starwisher, I guess was a joke about digging a hole for yourself? I think it's quite a well known phrase? You'll have to ask the poster who actually posted it, though.

Your other questions are answered already from posts on the thread, I think.

Starwisher I didn't realise that your post was intended to be an apology.

I didn't realise that it was an apology because it didn't come across like one. Rather it read as though you were saying that we were at fault for your misunderstanding of feminism.

Hence the spade comment. Which I accept was rude.

I take Beachcomber seriously. I find her arguments clear and her points interesting.

I CBA with all this personal bullshit.

Ah, ok. So pointing out the glaring errors in an argument that was presented in a condescending manner is an 'attack' now?

Rubbish. Absolute rot.

Starwisher, you came on here and spouted nonsense that is outdated by any source you care to name. But you either don't know this or don't care, and you used it to belittle others in the discussion.

Now you've decided you can't stand to be told you're wrong and so you're attacking more.

Poor show.

Oh so, so now you have decided anything towards me must be a hilarious joke?

How odd

Thank you LineRunner.

Abigail I did not say that the issue is with the woman per se. Just responding to a point that someone put[sorry cannot remember who said] influenced by society rather than partner so was pointing out that perhaps women perceiving a issue that maybe is not an issue after all. Oh that made no sense at all. Sorry.

No beachcomber it was an apology for My own misunderstanding and failings

I was not blaming anyone but myself

I'm sorry it read any different