Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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Have had a think about it, and I don't find this item threatening, it just makes me laugh a bit.

If a man were to produce it and intended to use it, I would just laugh really hard I think. Not to make a point or anything, I would just find it hilarious.

I am a feminist, but this thing does not bother me as I think a woman can say no if she doesn't like it.

Anyway, IMO, Ann Summers is all a bit of pseudo-kinky polyester stuff for the older generation who have lost their "spark", or am I wrong?

Starwisher, you're asking people to judge how far down the rabbit hole they are. It's an impossible question.

Can you define for me what you mean by 'pressure'? What is pressure?

There are feminist thinkers who very seriously suggest that EVERYTHING heterosexual - sex, living with men, the act of PIV - is constructed by society. Under that model, all heterosexual women (and men) are 'pressured' into that.

This doesn't mean they're forced or coerced - they probably want to in fact. I want to. But just because I can't see it in my own life doesn't mean I'm going to tell other feminists that they're wrong, or that they're snobbish or elitest; they've just presented me with another way of thinking.

No choice we EVER make is unaffected by ideology.

I didn't think that was a controversial thing to say any more...

With the greatest respect seahorses I dont think you have understood what the hypodermic needle model entails

I do not think laws should be relaxed
I do not want children exposed to explicit material

Where have you even got those ideas from?

I am saying that just because a child may see something, even illegally they are not always brainwashed into acting against their will

Starwisher I think it varies enormously according to individual women. What is plainly obvious to me though is the number of women who haven't thought about it at all because they simply consider sex to be something instinctual.

I would also say that despite what I wrote earlier my self-esteem/respect was very high and I had no problem at all in saying no to something I didn't want to do. The problem was with my own personal perception of what it was I did and didn't want to do, and it was that which was influenced by wider social pressure (far more so than by individual partners).

instinctual? perhaps instinctive.

Material culture itself is active; it doesn't just passively reflect what people wnat.

want sorry

Victor if someone willingly wants to do something then I would say that is not pressure, as the desire existed already if that makes sense

I've got those ideas from this thread, which is about people thinking that branches of Ann Summers shouldn't sell bondage gear like this (which they don't) because it they are not licensed sex shops - it is a high street store, and material like this should be in a licensed shop.

If you don't disagree and think the laws shouldn't be relaxed and such items should only be in licensed shops, not Ann Summers, what is it you are arguing for on this thread?

I am saying that just because a child may see something, even illegally they are not always brainwashed into acting against their will

So, not always, but sometimes, Starwisher?

Starwisher, where do desires come from?

Maybe I have misunderstood now I have read what sunshine has to say

I was under the impression some believed that because they were a feminist, they had to protect those who did not define themself as a feminist, as they are somehow not as capable of knowing their own minds.

As if we are passive puppets of the patricachy. Hence why I did believe that to be elitist.

To me, that vexed me deeply as I would find it just as controlling to be told what to think and do by a group of women as opposed to a man.

Hopefully I have been labouring under a false Impression, because now it seems many of you also count yourselfs as also fallible and not as superior?

In a minute are you going to conclude that we therefore can't know what we are talking about because we have 'admitted' we are 'fallible'?

If you are really enjoying a genuine argument/debate, Starwisher, my apologies and fair play to you.

No-one has ever said anything that would give you the impression that any feminist thinker counts themselves as 'superior'.

No feminist thinker counts themselves as 'outside' or 'unaffected' by patriarchy because the idea that we are autonomous individuals was discredited about one hundred and twenty years ago.

You're arguing a completely discredited position and you've been personally insulting while doing so.

Not a good look.

I wouldn't look at it as anyone being fallible. We all want to participate in society and want our children to participate in society. As a feminist, I want to build a society that is a positive experience for women in general, including myself. I don't think it is possible or desirable to somehow rise above, avoid, or exclude myself or my children from society.

I don't want to be told it is my responsibility to keep my children off a certain road because it has lap dancing ads on it; we want to go to places on that road. I also don't want to be told it is my responsibility to not take my kids in a supermarket so that they don't see the cover of Zoo. I want us to be able to go into public spaces and be part of society.

And I think that we as people are more important than the sex industry, which can set up shop elsewhere.

That's one seriously messed up definition you have picked up of feminism/feminists Starwisher.

I care about this shit because it affects me and my kind. Not because I wish to sit in judgement of women and control or oppress them.

I've repeatedly identified myself as one of those women who were affected by the normalisation of BDSM alongside engaging in feminist analysis. I'm not superior. And I'm mystified how anyone could read that into it.

Oh this is ridiculous. Some very disappointing attitudes on here.

Even when I admit I may be wrong and misunderstood I still somehow managed to offend and still get mauled.

Honelstly this is impossible to engage with some people who read offence and fabricated meaning into every last word

A poor way to conduct a thread.it serves no purpose other than to be counter productive to getting people to respect your pov.

Thank you Sunshine for your posts though as I actually found those ones useful.

Starwisher do you want a spade for that hole?

Beachcomber

Perhaps you feel yourself to look clever, but your hostile nature serves no other purpose than to ruin your creditably as someone worth listening too

Starwisher, other than your snobby and elitist remark, I don't think you're being offensive. I'm offended not by you personally but by the sexualisation of society in general and young people in particular.

I just disagree with you. I don't find the majority of your posts offensive.

Thank you SeaHouses

I apologise you were offended by my snobbery remark, but I felt at the time that was accurate, but I think upon reading some of the posts perhaps I was wrong in that belief and felt as above I should apologise.

I also do worry about the same issues as you do, but just differed that I did not always feel young people are passive to the degree of someothers but do agree it is gravely concerning.

Could you quit it with the personal attack please Starwisher.

sunshine I was thinking when I made my point about society was from a womans point of view. As a woman who was bought up in a household/environment that encouraged me to have confidence and belief I believe that I can make my own decsisions regarding anything in my life disregarding what the man may think. I am instilling this to my own Daughters and the belief that they are worth much more if they are true to themselves. I was not thinking of a man's point of view that "porn is normal" so woman must act thus. If women are bought up aware of themselves and their sexual being then they will have the confidence to act how they wish, whether using this strap or anal sex or no sex at all, and personally that is where the problem lies the uneducation and low self esteem and low aspirations that are placed on women. The problem is not with the man but with women. Please I do understand that rape and abuse happens and my heart goes truly out to those people but the notion that selling this in Ann Summers will encourage a tribe of teens into sexual abuse is quite beyond me.