To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

Well, there are forum rules and the option to report a post. What more can anyone expect of a public forum? You cannot create a situation in which noone will ever be offended by a post. It's just impossible. I don't get offended when someone tells me to fuck off. Other people do get offended by that. I can report it if I want. I can tell them to fuck off as well. There's no template for polite discussion that will offend noone who might post/read.

I'm a bit fed up now of this whole line of argument that nobody is allowed to point out that somebody is making a misogynistic comment, because it might offend them because they consider themselves a feminist.

Well people always say that, don't they? If you point out to somebody that they have made a racist comment, they always respond by saying how there best friend's uncle is black so they couldn't possibly make a racist remark. It is just the same here. I think it is essential that people do keep on pointing out misogynistic remarks.

I really like and respect dittany but it's a tad disingenuous to pretend she wasn't offensive/dismissive at times, often her tone was pretty inappropriately cutting. And it wasn't when she was attacked first. And feminists don't have to worry about offending people, people do. Funnily enough I'm a person first.

The word misogynist is over used, especially here.

SAF - I'm guessing that you mean my posts are asking for lovey dovey posters? I'm not sure if you think that's what I was implying? I wasn't btw. There's no way that I'd want this to be an all fluffy pink slippers and Women's Weekly kinda thread.

I enjoy the nitty gritty, just not the bun fights and finger pointing.

Not my style.

I'm sorry if you felt that is what my posts have 'requested'

But Lenin, if you point out that someone is saying something that is mysogynist, you can be as polite and kind as you like, they are still going to be really offended.

And also, most people haven't had the "benefit" of a catholic upbringing, so they don't understand the distinction between hating the sinner and hating the sin. In other words, they think if you point out that what they aer saying is mysogynist, that means you think they are a mysogynist. If someone is determined not to employ critical thinking and to try and grasp nuance in what someone is saying to them, and prefer to strop off in high dudgeon, they are responsible for that, Dittany or any other poster who tried to engage with them while picking up on their mysogyny, is not. I don't really know what we can do about that, I have been constantly astounded by how many people appear to be engaging with an argument and as soon as someone suggests to them that their arguments tap into a mysogynist tradition, they're off. Really, what level of discussion can you have with someone with that attitude? How can we engage with someone who is absolutely convinced that they have the right to spout mysogynist arguments without it ever being pointed out, that that's what those arguments are?

Wonders if Mousey 'can do it tonight?'.

this is a feminist board-the word mysogynist is going to be used isnt it.
this is like people turning up on life-limits and complaining about the word death.
or turning up on gardening and saying they dont like the word carrots.

Crapola, your posts are contradictory. Riven came on this thread and said she felt uncomfortable with people's attitude to religion on this section. You have since come on and posted a negative remark about Islam. Now you are saying people have an obligation to not offend others, but surely you must be aware your comments are offensive to others?

I accept that is your posting style, and if it is accepted by MNHQ, I'm not going to ask you to change it.

Saf...So now people who are offended need to grow a backbone? Nice.

I hadn't realised, as you seem to suggest, that being nice and polite and refraining from belittling people was a 'feminine' attribute. Again I think it's just plain decent.

When people are feeling their feet in this topic or starting out I think a more informative and less eye rolling is worthwhile.

I said as a feminist I have a problem with religion especially Islam. I did not ridicule Riven did I? Besides I'm debating what is happening with regulars, and as a name changer I can't be one!

Well, if either Lenin or Crapola bothered to read my post, they would see I never used the word misogynist. I said that people's comments were misogynistic; that doesn't mean their intention is based on the fact that they are a misogynist.

I will post this link again, because I do think that understanding this difference is really important. If people are walking around thinking I never say anything prejudiced/misogynistic because I'm not a prejudiced/misogynistic person, they have an ego the size of Brazil. We all have to reflect on what we think and why; that is part of the point of this section.

Riven didn't say she was being personally ridiculed or that the problem lies with regulars. The fact that you don't consider yourself a regular doesn't give you a right to make an offensive remark and expect not to be challenged on it.

Ironic that the 'nice' threads are possibly ones where people are a little more 'fluffy' eh?