To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

People should lift up responsibility for their own lives, take responsibility for their actions, make decisions, take ownership of their feelings. That can be hard to do but it seems like a good thing for a woman to aspire to (especially if she is posting in the feminist section). But it lessens the opportunities to blame other people for any upset you feel. It can be easier to blame other people rather than take on that responsibility.

Lenin - you keep saying you can't keep talking about it but I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be disingenuous, I honestly have no idea.

Crapola - always! Miss Wood at her best IMO.

Saf - that is EXACTLY my POV. I just waasn't sure if my hug fest had made you boak and therefore post what you did. Sorry! Got it massively wrong there! Doh!

Right, I really am off to cook dinner although DH isn't really here to beat

SaF. Backbone comments imply that people are weak if they are offended, sorry if I didn't make my objections clear. My backbone is strong enough to ignore your patronising crap too....using words like 'silly' 'pander' is kind of proving the point about people visiting here. It's bitchy and snide. You don't have to treat women like delicate flowers but not like thick arseholes either if they don't know the ins and outs of every feminist ideal.

MillyR. I wasn't specifically talking about your post.

       And I see nothing wrong with challenging ideas as long as you don't belittle the poster.

Lenin - Im not trying to be a twat, I've lurked on feminism for ages and occasionally post but just don't understand what your posts are referring to, perhaps because I havent read the AIBUs? Just thought I'd ask rather than eternally wonder

This all about 'feelings', 'emotions' which are abstracts, subjective. It's a kind of silly to even be discussing this as if there can be some kind of objective outcome that will bring 'the bullied' back to the board. And yet, the main 'culprit' has gone and people are still complaining.

I find myself agreeing with Lenin, again.

I can honestly say if anyone wants a damned good example of how to be unerring in your views without the will or intention to offend and ONLY engage and inform I don't think you can go far wrong with LeninGrad. Perhaps it is because she sees the long game and bigger gains.

if i can just interject here, as a 'fluffy' feminist

yes, feminism is about growing a spine, about being able to stand up and be counted, but if you've taken a blow from the very people you aspire to be, no wonder others will run off and cry.

whether is it deserved or not, it still hurts.

And when people challenge it, feminist regulars close rank and defend.

Proles
I agree, it can feel incredibly uncomfortable at times. That's par for the course. Learning to view stuff through the lens of feminism is bloody hard going. It's simply not possible to make it easy or nice for people. If people are interested, if they're ready to be both validated and challenged by feminism, then they'll stick with it.

Absolutely agree. And I wonder if people underestimate the impact that reading some ideas/theories can have on you, how unsettling they can be. It is possible that they can make you feel upset and then maybe that can be directed unconsciously at the poster?? Some responses to the OP on the smear test thread were so incredibly hostile and rude that it was breathtaking, when she had simply posted ideas that come from feminist theory.

Floyjoy - I totally agree with that, I have read some things on here that have shook me, they are so alien to me after being raised in a very 'traditional' family. So I can see that perhaps the upset felt could be directed incorrectly at the perso posting.

'I can honestly say if anyone wants a damned good example of how to be unerring in your views without the will or intention to offend and ONLY engage and inform I don't think you can go far wrong with LeninGrad. Perhaps it is because she sees the long game and bigger gains.'

Seconded.
If an argument becomes personalised, if I feel that the other participants are waiting for the moment to argue their point rather than listening to what is actually being said, then I leave the thread.
I do lurk a lot more than I post, or ask questions. I've been involved in a few spats where I thought what I was saying wasn't actually what was being heard. Sometimes I tried for clarification and sometimes I just shrugged and walked off.
I'd rather have a discussion, or a good argument and then have stuff to chew over and consider. This board has many threads like that, and they are fascinating to read.

Lenin, you aren't the messenger. It is actually you making these remarks about Dittany. You are making this personal.

On a personal level when thinking about my own behaviour, I was criticised for my behaviour on the Palin thread (on the thread about the thread). Now, none of the fellow complainers, said, actually I don't think Milly did anything wrong on that thread. No, instead, I was urged to take on board the criticisms of me. Since then, I have repeatedly been asked to take these criticisms on board.

Now, I'm finding it hard to take those criticisms on board, or take this complaint about me seriously, or take the people supporting the complainant seriously when they urge me to listen to the genuine concerns raised. The reason for this is because I never posted on the Palin thread. I'm not nitpicking about whether or not my remarks on the thread were personal or not, I'm saying I did not post at all on that thread.

So how on earth am I meant to alter my behaviour when I was never even on the thread in question? I have never even read the Palin thread. I don't even know what it was about.

As an irregular poster who has noone to close ranks with, it is kind of hard to take complaints from people who tell everyone they're storming off, hide the thread, etc. It's not very empowered but that is their choice to write that. You can just drop out, tell someone to stick it, etc. It is a discussion space for adults. What would you do face-to-face? You don't really sit at a work meeting, blurt out that your colleague who you've been having a disagreement with is a bully and then run out the meeting,s aying that you'll never be back. You would usually deal to deal with it more creatively. Maybe report it.
Oh, and by 'you' I mean anyone in general.

I agree floyjoy. The most upsetting thing about this board is not being called anti-feminist etc, but being forced to recognise just how widespread the hatred of women and girls is and how we are all guilty perpetuating it without realising.