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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Has anybody seen this about the salesmen's orgy?

214 replies

BitOfFun · 19/05/2011 23:43

Just spotted it in the In The News section, which I've had hidden for ages since all the BNP threads, but that's by-the-by...

OMFG...

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swallowedAfly · 25/05/2011 18:46

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swallowedAfly · 25/05/2011 18:47

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celadon · 25/05/2011 19:41

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swallowedAfly · 25/05/2011 20:18

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sakura · 26/05/2011 02:28

but they will have been groomed SaF. All children are born with free will and agency. Females get their desire for freedom drummed (or beaten) out of them by their culture, parents (often their mothers) and religions until slavery seems like the only reasonable option. MAny women believe that all they can do in life is fold laundry and have children; their self-esteem is that low..

Women are told from birth they'Re nothign if they don'T have a man and that all their energies should be devoted to getting one..
we can hardly blame the women for being brainwashed

It's a fucking horrible situation: for the wives and the whores..
I hate patriarchy.

[And to the lurkers: it's not me that thinks prostitutes are whores, it's a comment on how men see women, it's called compartmentalizing, the madonna/whore complex]

sakura · 26/05/2011 02:32

I say "often their mothers" because society gives women the role of grooming their daughters for men.
Kate Middleton, perfect example. Do you think her mother sat her down and said, "If you marry William I will fear for your sanity, please don't do it" > I reckon her mother helped her snare him.
And this is not a slur on her mother either... all these women are acting withing the constraints of patriarchy and are doing the best they can...
That's why we need to get rid of patriarchy

swallowedAfly · 26/05/2011 08:03

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sakura · 27/05/2011 02:34

oh yes, see your point now..Speaking of which, I have just read RIght Wing WOmen by Andrea Dworkin and it has literally blown my mind..

it's all about why right wing women hold the beliefs, and behave the way they do, (perhaps turning a blind eye to a husband's "discrepancies") and it's NOT because they're stupid as most people believe. Women aren't stupid contrary to how the media portrays them (Sarah palin is a good example)... She argues that right wing women have simply accurately asessed the way of the world, and their politics is based on this accurate analysis. THe left and the liberals are just as misogynistic as the right, but the Right offers a slightly better deal to women in their opinion.
I can't stress how fabulously mind-blowing this book was!

swallowedAfly · 27/05/2011 06:58

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MyLifeIsChaotic · 27/05/2011 07:10

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sakura · 27/05/2011 10:48

yes.. that's the catch..
they'Re willing to throw a few women to the dogs for the "greater good" the majority of women. THe problem is, it was only pure chance an luck that stopped them from being the ones thrown to the dogs...
ANd they know this ...
they know the only thing that prevented them from being the ones stuck shivering on a street corner was luck...
but the way they see it the male system is just too powerful.. the only people fighting the root cause is other women, who are themselves powerless..

I hope they're wrong on that count.

They're not wrong about the misogyny of the left and the liberals though, and we have seen this in Nick Clegg.. and the rise of porn culture through leftist ideologies.
The other thing is that Conservatives oppose porn and places like Hooters... that's not a small thing for women
And the final reason (and this one is close to my heart) the conservatives are the only group which fight the male medical fraternaty's callous use of women's bodies in the form of surrogacy and egg harvesting... they are the only group which acknowledge women's role... it is extremely conservative... but the alternative is seeing women's life-creating power being brought down to the basest level wombs sold as commodities women harvested for their eggs and farmed for their life-giving potential in return for a few bucks... a few quid more than they're able to get than in the job market where their labour is exploited by the system

having said that they are going about it all the wrong way... the only way to change anything is through laws and social policies made by and in favour or women...

But as a lefty myself, it was really interesting to see thing from the other side of the fence IYSWIM

swallowedAfly · 27/05/2011 10:51

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smallwhitecat · 27/05/2011 10:59

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TheRealMBJ · 27/05/2011 11:04

Wow sakura, you've just blown my mind.

Well, actually you've put into words what I've been feeling for quite some time. Both in terms of the right-wing women's assessment of the world and in terms of the misogyny of the left.

(Actually the compartmentalisation helps to psychologically remove ourselves from 'the other' and we all do it to a certain extent and in different spheres of our lives.)

As a lefty myself, I do find it very difficult to reconcile my feminism (which I couldn't say has yet become my over-riding political ideology - although it probably should) with some of the liberal ideologies. Hmmm....

(I've just read this linked to on twitter. And has made me feel sick. Again. The comodification, the dehumanisation, the hatred of all women...

Sigh

TheRealMBJ · 27/05/2011 11:06

I thought Sakura is actually quite complementary and understanding towards conservative women swc

sakura · 27/05/2011 11:12

you believe some crazy shit about women who vote Conservative, Sakura Confused

actually the book is based on interviews with conservative religious women who openly expressed their hatred of lesbians and homosexuals because of the teachings of the bible..
it then goes on to explain why some women think this way.


think about it: without women's cooperation no political regime, no religion would last very long.

so the question is why do women become handmaidens for the patriarchy

smallwhitecat · 27/05/2011 11:12

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sakura · 27/05/2011 11:14

yes TheReal (and thank you for liking the post!)... it's in defence of Right wing women... because you have to ask yourself.. why on earth do any women lean to the right when it is so clearly misogynistic

sakura · 27/05/2011 11:15

well your animosity towards me and my feminist beliefs goes back a long way smallwhitecat, so I'm leaving this thread now

smallwhitecat · 27/05/2011 11:16

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swallowedAfly · 27/05/2011 11:18

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smallwhitecat · 27/05/2011 11:20

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sakura · 27/05/2011 11:21

just come back to say that smallwhitecat was INCORRECT in saying I believe all tory-voting women are a particular "type".. but the book wasn't talking about those. IT wasn't talking about the liberal-conservatives, it wasn't talking about the women who voted tory because they couldn'T be arsed voting labour, it wasn't talking about the women who voted for the right because of this or that tax policy..
it was specifically talking about right-wing ideology , especially the far right

Prolesworth · 27/05/2011 11:24

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swallowedAfly · 27/05/2011 11:25

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