Has anybody seen this about the salesmen's orgy?

[BitOfFun]

Just spotted it in the In The News section, which I've had hidden for ages since all the BNP threads, but that's by-the-by...

OMFG...

Andrew Neil was in Uni with my parents. He was very full of himself apparently.

His hair looks like pubes.

Others have voiced opinions that are akin to my own ones of revulsion, so I shan't repeat.

If anyone still believes that the glass ceiling is simply because of "lifestyle choices", then they really need to think again after this publicity. Why would men like that want women in the upper echelons, killing their buzz? And why would women want to join that club even if they were able?

If there was ever a week to hate the patriarchy...

It is a fresh and fruity Riesling. From my DH's hometown.

Liebfraumilch or Blue Nun my German DH would faint if I brought home those.

Oh, and I agree. Andrew Neil's hair is just about the scariest thing on tv.

And I have to say, going by what I have seen of my BIL's company, the story does not surprise me in the least.

HMI is a kind of subsidiary of the larger Hamburg Mannheimer. They are the hard sell guys, the ones who are out there phoning the customers. They are not well thought of by other insurance salesmen. They have always had a bit of a grubby reputation.

Whilst this kind of behaviour is not necessarily often formalised like this in the City, the jist of it goes on all the time. And poor attitudes towards women go hand in hand, although much denied, of course, for appearences sake.

I lurk on a message board for lawyers, initially from a professional pov, but now partly so that I don't forget what some of the "nice guys" really think when they are anonymous. There are only two people on there who post in anything like a feminist-friendly manner and they are both men. The board's take on news like this is depressingly predictable. I can imagine, though, that no-one else is really up for the fight. I know I'm not.

AyeRobot- I used to use that forum, but a few years back (before it was redesigned) I looked around one day and thought, "you know, there's a lot of really unpleasant people here- why am I bothering?" I don't know if it is still the same, but unless the women posted in a really man-pleasing way, they would get smacked down immediately. The popular female posters were all sort of kittenish.

A well known Mumsnetter, who posts in this section also used to post there. Dont know if she still does. As she had the courage to post her opinions, she was regularly crucified, despite the fact that she was a lot more successful and a better lawyer than 95% of the other posters. It was awful. I hope i am not giving anything away here, as she has always been pretty laidback about posting her details.

Anyway, it was fantastic to find this site, and in particular this section, which is full of highly intelligent women who understand intellectual rigour and are also supportive and decent people. And you are spot on about the attitudes in the city.

I agree, lisianthus, and you are spot on with all of your observations. Including those about this section.

lisianthus if the person you are talking about is who I think it is then I'm sure she can look after herself

And good to hear that she is out there doing her thing against twonks like that.

Bhindi = okra
Bindi = forehead decoration
Bidi = cigarettes
Blini = small pancake

I love riesling too. I always buy German wine because I feel sorry for it being unfashionable. And because I like it.

This thread is like being in a strange parallel universe.

I keep feeling sick with revulsion and sick with laughter by turns.

Glad we sorted out the blini/bindi business.

Only on MN could a thread go like this.

If you like German wine, then look for Frankenwein - it is very good quality wine. Not easy to get in UK but worth looking. Quite dry though.

Husband is German. He is from that area.

I like German wine and I love okra. Champagne is like poison if you have more than a couple of glasses.

'if ever there was a week to hate the patriarchy' is my favourite feminist quote of the week.

Am going to have to up the stakes on the French keyboard showing off by writing ?ufs de pâques - if you can do the squishy o/e thing and the circumflex, I'm moving back to the UK.

Have you seen the thread in here where a MNetter is being invited to a sexist corporate do involving getting one's photo taken with scantily dressed women?

sec and AyeRobot. SQ I suspect you are right- it was a privilege to see her in action.

Beachcomber- NO! will look it up.

So now we know what bindi/bhindi etc is, WTH are the oafs de wotsit? Am learning lots on this thread.

So who are the subsidiaries of this appalling company? So we can organise a boycott?

Does anyone speak German? These men have got wives, I'm certain of it, that's the only way they can handle these high-powered jobs: because their wives are doing the day to day shitwork at home. Their wives need to know.

OTOH, their wives should be kept out of it. I just feel so impotent because nothing is going to happen to these awful men, the awful organizors and the misogynistic company. At the very least their wives should leave them!!

I read earlier on this thread someone asking what the criteria might have been for the girls with white bands, and why might they have been chosen to be reserved for the special high status men (whether they were young or vulnerable etc)

From what I have learned about men buying sex has nothing to do with the women. [So men who like sex (and women) don't visit prostitutes, because the point of being with a prostitute is the unequal power dynamic at play> Some men love playing the masochist when with a prostitute; it tickles them that they can pretend to be subordinate when the true power dynamics of the exchange are completely different.]

Well my point is that.... there might well have been nothing really distinguishing those women from the other women except those white bands. They might not have been prettier/younger etc because it is never about the women and only ever about the men. So a man can feel important and powerful just by knowing that there is a select group of women that only he has access to that the other men, the underlings, are not allowed to touch. This in itself was the turn on. Extras such as looks etc were largely irrelevant.

Iit seems to me that men's decisions and behaviour are never made in relation to women, only ever in relation to other men. A high status man would not go with a prettier women he actually "fancied" , who was wearing a yellow band (or whatever the other colour was), because the point of the women in white bands was not to be attractive but to establish the male pecking order.