Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Looking for support and inspiration - DP says feminism is 'totally outdated'

218 replies

Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 00:50

Was having a chat with DP tonight over dinner and it degenerated into an argument. Initially we were talking about Islamic attitudes to women (in light of France banning the niqab), and it broadened into a discussion of attitudes here. I was making the point that even though oppressed/minority groups such as women/gays/whoever are in a pretty good position here, at this present moment in time, it's worth remembering that attitudes don't always move forwards and can infact move backwards, and so rights we've attained can actually be snatched away if we get complacent. My broader point was that feminism is still really important because even though a lot of the battles women have fought have been won, these victories can always be undermined and even reversed if we don't pay attention.

DP thought this argument was 'banal' because 'it's meaningless to speculate on what could happen', plus he pretty forcefully insisted that feminism is 'totally outdated' and asked me to explain why exactly things were so bad for me as a woman. I admit I had no ready examples of why things were 'so bad' Blush but I did ask him how he would feel if our DD aged 7 came to him aged 18 and asked to have the money for a boob job because the boys didn't find her natural body attractive enough (ie she didn't look like a porn star). He said 'I'm sure she'd have more sense than that.'

What has left me reeling is the claim that feminism is 'totally outdated' and that, as he's effectively saying, women have nothing to complain about. To be honest I don't find myself complaining that much but that doesn't mean the battles have all been won. I also think it's important not to get complacent. Can anyone on here cheer me up with a little support :(

OP posts:
dittany · 16/04/2011 10:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 16/04/2011 10:09

Nice one, Bumper! I'd love to check it out.

Original poster
Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 10:14

Dittany, so that you can update your facts and figures, just thought I should mention that there is infact now a solitary Asian female MP, Priti Patel in Witham. Still a pretty poor record...

OP posts:
dittany · 16/04/2011 10:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 10:20

Oh and just to answer your point about privileges and benefits (x-post) yes I'm sure you're right although he would obviously never acknowledge this. I do think it might be brought home to him as our DD grows up and he sees her through the eyes of society and other men - she has already said things like 'I don't like my body shape' 'Do I look fat in this' for example

OP posts:
Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:32

Just uploading to google docs, will link in a minute. It's really really rough and ready. If anyone can make it better, add more stats then feel free. It was just the principles that I wanted to get across to DH.

Portoeufino · 16/04/2011 10:41

That is fabulous Bumper - well your efforts - sadly not the content! Can I link to it on FB?

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 16/04/2011 10:42

bloody well done Bumper.

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:44

Yes you can link to it, but if I were more well read and had more time I could do a much better job. The researcher in me hates to have all these stats without proper references! I just trawled the internet for the info.

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:45

There aren't any photos of me or the DDs in the version you are seeing?

I'd quite like to add a page of recommended reading, but I think that would have been a bridge too far with DH!

Portoeufino · 16/04/2011 10:51

no photos!

DarthNiqabi · 16/04/2011 10:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 11:00

Great, thanks Porto :)

Indiestarr, this attitude, that feminism is over and no longer relevant, is obviously a prevalent one. I will never forgive Stuart Rose for this comment.

sungirltan · 16/04/2011 11:01

of course feminism is relevent! i think its more relevent now because sujugation and objectification is getting worse. here is an example. i used to work a few years back in an office inside a warehouse. when i started there i was one of only 3 women. the guys in the office were gentle family men and the guys in the warehouse were all 40 plus. i never had any nonsense from any of them or felt vulnerable because i was one of the only girls - i know i know why should i? well exactly. after about 9 months the warehouse expanded and took on a load of agency staff which were all early 20's guys. everything changed and i was harrassed constantly and propositoned. my point is that the femisnist movement did make some changes but i think young lbokes think it doesnt apply to htem and its all back to square one. obviously the rise of lads mags is pretty much to blame :( actually this happened again when i was a recruitment consultant - office full of women and a few older men/dad - new younger bloke started and the atmosphere changed and i was getting messages on the interanl system asking what colour knickers i was wearing :( after that incident i had male friends queseing up to wait outside work for him and 'ahve a word' - this made me feel even worse!!

BertieBotts · 16/04/2011 11:23

Get him to look at the thread I started about everyday sexism. Okay most of the things mentioned are minor, but they add up to a general feeling of being less. Maybe that's hard to understand, I don't know. The thread got very long depressingly quickly.

Bonsoir · 16/04/2011 11:26

OP - if your DD goes to her parents aged 18 and asks for a boob job, that will be because you, as parents, have failed to educate her and not for any other reason.

Thruaglassdarkly · 16/04/2011 11:33

Seth - yes, it shocked me too. The head gets a lot of positive female role models in to give talks to the girls about careers etc to inspire them, but he says most aren't that interested and are more interested in their clothes, hair and make-up. He keeps telling me that feminism amongst the younger generation's dead. Am sure it's not, but perhaps it's less attractive to a generation of women who've watched their mothers working full-time at career jobs and are still having to come home and do everything, as has been the case in many households (not mine, I have to say. My husband does loads with the kids).

DegreesExperiencebutnojob · 16/04/2011 11:37

Feminism is more relevant than ever. Have you seen the cuts made by this government? Its about 75% targetted to hit women.

I didnt notice sexism until I hit my 20s. A sexist, very damaging boss, a sexist working atmosphere where I was automatically offered the worst tasks (making tea and sandwiches for everyone?? while they do the job we are all actually employed to do?) passed over for promotions and opportunities, always given the half broken equipment to do my work while the men got brand new kit..
But still I worked my arse off and tried to make the best of it, followed by MY BOSS spreading nasty rumours about me, and actively trying to destroy my career! I left for a new job but people still ask for references from that period and I hate to think how it might be affecting my chances.

Also I see that while girls are getting the best exam grades and degrees, the departments I have worked in have shockingly few women in leadership positions.. less than 5 %. We have an intake at trainee level of 50%. Its an absolute disgrace, and highlights the serious hurdles women face, that 90% of them do not make it.

Original poster
Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 11:55

Bonsoir - but isn't that exactly my point?? If we sit back and say that feminism is irrelevant and everything for women is hunky dory we wouldn't even spot that she needed to be educated! I made the point because things may look as if everything is great for women but there are many pernicious influences that can still affect women's lot - one being that young boys see so much pornography their perception of a natural woman's body is totally distorted - studies have shown this. I hope I'm making sense :)

OP posts:
SherbetDibDab · 16/04/2011 12:08

I'm one of 3 girls.
My Mum told me last week that my Dad has said he hadn't fully appreciated how hard things were for young woman until he'd seen us trying to maintain careers whilst starting families.
I imagine my Mum had known that for some time!

I think it's interesting though that that's what it took for him to see that perspective.

Bonsoir · 16/04/2011 12:17

Women and men both need to be educated. Feminism hasn't made education irrelevant for women, it has made education available for women.

JaneS · 16/04/2011 13:09

But feminist education isn't just about making education available to women, it's about educating the whole of society that women's bodies shouldn't be objectified. You can't put all the blame on an 18-year-old's shoulders. Society as a whole shouldn't be sending the message that it's ok for women to mutilate themselves in order to conform to a stereotype of sexual attractiveness.

JaneS · 16/04/2011 13:10

Btw, as to why feminism isn't 'totally outdated': just take a look at the numbers of female professors in British universities. And then see how many of them have children. Then compare with the numbers of men, and how many of them have children.

WideWebWitch · 16/04/2011 13:19

Bumperlicious, great slide show, well done.

Might you consider setting up a Facebook "why feminism is relevant and necessary" page showing it?

Swipe left for the next trending thread