Rape within marriage

[tabouleh]

Yes unashamedly a thread about a thread.

It is like entering the bloody twilight zone over there.

Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her.

Totally understand if this gets deleted for being a thread about a thread - but if it gets more of the feminist viewpoints onto that thread then great.

I realise that by engaging with posters like Marantha - then I am stopping the focus being on Anchor and others that need help. However, I suppose I just do not want to put up with the sexism and the mean posts and I think it should be called on.

Chocolatestar - I hope you caught up on sleep. It isn't rocket science.

Dignfied I had no idea my post would get the response it did. I spent several years post-grad and post-doctoral working on feminist issues and reading feminist theory, and had taken part in numerous (real life) feminist discussion groups. I don't usually upset anyone - and I don't think most of the (mostly academic) feminists I know would be offended by the issues I have raised today.

The first thing I posted here - I think I was told I was disgusting. Nice - open debate. Polyvocality not.

The fact that Anchor feels unable to post to discuss where to go from here has bothered me a lot. Realisticly Anchor come from that thread to this to find exactly the same thing being said.

I dont mean this in a horrible way, but lots of you apear to want to support her , yet shes posted several times saying SHE WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS IT FURTHER and that has pretty much been ignored amongst all the arguing with these idiots. This has not been a safe or supportive place for her to come , and i for one feel really shit about it, because shes now left to deal with the fallout by herself, which isnt ok.

Shes not words on a screen, shes a real live person and for her to be called names and talked about like some of you have is absoluteley shit.

Those of you who dont beleive her, who want to dispassionateley discuss rape, why not fuck off elsewhere ? Seriously, why dont you ?

Tabouleh - that sounds grand.

Sleepypjs But the tone of your post above is horrible...

Marantha is entitled to your feminist support just as much as Anchor. That means she has a right to have her opinion listened to, and if you agree with her, you can tell her why.

chocolate - it's good to hear about your experiences with other men. I haven't had the same traumatic things happen as you have, but I sometimes stop participating, either because I am in pain, or distracted, or tired. My DP doesn't just carry on, he stops and uses words like "are you OK?", "do you want to stop", "let's stop if you're not into it" and "are you too tired?" - he gives me the choice about whether or not I want to continue. It really isn't rocket science, it is (or should be) the norm.

dignified Do you have a problem with the concept that disbelieving someone is NOT the same as reserving judgement? Or do you think they're one and the same?

If someone accuses someone else of a heinous crime, I do not think, 'they're lying', I think, 'hmm... reserve judgement, don't know all the facts'.

My DH is the same, he often checks in with me. I don't get what is so hard about it.

SS! You went to all those feminist groups, and you can't see why someone wouldn't want to support a rape victim over someone who openly doubts and criticises a rape victim on the basis of..well, nothing?

dignified & Tabouleh, I agree. How about a "Support for Anchor" thread in relationships, with a caveat at the top stating that it is just for support, and that discussion of the definition of rape etc will be deferred to another thread? And that any off-topic posts that are upsetting/insulting would be reported? I wonder if MNHQ would delete them, in the context of a pure support thread?

do you have a problem with the idea that should you wish to reserve judgment that you should simply not post?

Whether it was actual rape or not? Marantha - you are beyond belief.

And TheDolly - coming back with a load of sanctimonious bullshit when last night you said that if you were in Anchor's shoes, you'd think her husband was 'disrespectful'.

Honestly - who needs men around when the likes of you believe women are liars unless proved otherwise by a man?

I didn't think this thread could get more depressing but you've taken it to a whole new level. Well done.

What matters to me is not so much what WE think about what happened, anyway.
It's about what they, as a couple, feel about it- can THEY find a way past what happened?

Only THEY can decide. A bunch of screaming so-called feminists or rape-apologists on the fucking web are irrelevant.

Those of you who dont beleive her, who want to dispassionateley discuss rape, why not fuck off elsewhere ? Seriously, why dont you ?

I didn't read the original thread before it was pulled. I don't feel able to comment on her situation, as I don't really understand what happened.

Surely a thread entitled rape in marriage on a feminist board is the right place to discuss the issues? That was pretty much the discussion that it was attracting - and what is wrong with that - it is an important issue and worthy of debating. There are numerous other places to create a support thread - and anyone of you could do that, in cluding Anchor herself - maybe she doesnt' want to?

What's really disappointing is that the feminist section of the board is such a hostile place. It is hardly a great advertisement for feminist thought - is it?

that's right marantha. That's why we've taken Anchor at her word.

Nothing wrong at all in reserving judgement , but if someone is upset, whatever they are upset about , is it nice to make the sort of implications that have been made on here ? Why not just say nothing ?

I read lots of threads where i think people are misinformed, exagerating, or just plain daft , if i reserve judgement i just dont reply.

Putting aside the issue of whether it was rape or not, it was clear she wanted some support to talk about other aspects of her marriage and i think she should have had that.

sorry Susan, but you would not believe how often we get told off for being "bad feminists" on here - far more than the (never) it has happened to other people on this thread. Some people are swearing - it's a high intensity thread it's hardly surprising. I am sick and tired of the idea that feminists have to be held to a higher standard of behaviour than anyone else.

Sassy - Anchor has posted in great detail on this thread about what happened. Did you not take the time and courtesy to read it before wading in?

I thought we were discussing the general issue of what constituted consenusal sex and what constituted rape.

I havent' said anything about Anchor - as I didn't read her thread.

LB - I did indeed take the time and have the coutesy to read it all - but she kept alluding to things that had been said on a thread which had already be deleted.

She really did Sassy. So you're talking a load of bollocks.