Traps For Women & Girls

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I've been thinking about how a lot of the time it is impossible for a woman to win when it comes to choices.

For example, it seems that everyone is very keen for mothers to stay at home, especially those with small children (should say that this is second hand, I have no DC yet). Public opinion, childcare costs, media etc all make clear that that is the right choice.

And yet when they do they become expected to do all the housework (even at weekends), vulnerable to charges of being lazy, "ladies who lunch", overprotective etc.

And if they work part-time they are often seen as uncommitted at work, and still have all the downsides of being SAHM.

Or if you wear make-up and heels some people will judge you as a bimbo, but if you wear a t-shirt and jeans and trainers, then you are probably depressed or a lesbian (nothing wrong with being gay, just a stupid judgement to make on appearance alone) or not making "enough" effort.

Was wondering if anyone else had examples of being caught in these kind of traps?

the virgin vs slut insults teenage girls have to put up with

younger vs older mums

when you are with a violent partner you are either stupid to stay or a homewrecker/scrounging single parent if you leave

homebirth vs c-section

a bitchy ballbreaker if you're assertive or a doormat if you're compromising

Being female.

It really does end there.

You are supposed to be accomodating, assertive, sexy, modest, nurturing, independant, reliable, exciting, beautiful, low maintenance, slim, not a fussy eater, feminine, one of the lads, work focussed, child focussed.

And when we cannot emobdy all that it means to be a woman, we fail.

We are women, therefore we fail.

Yes!

Pushed hard to do well at school by my parents. Badgered all through university by them about what I was going to do with my life.

Ended up with a well paid career - got pregnant, my Dad told me I couldn't expect to carry on working.

Went back part-time, just had DC2 and found out I'm going to be made redundant.

Planning to stay at home til DD1 goes to school but my parents seem to think I should be rushing out to get another job!

supposed to go along with porn-culture, be cool with partners watching porn etc - but if you are into it or like unusual sexual practices you are "dirty".

Perhaps if all of you stop caring what other people think of you, it wouldn't all be such a struggle?
I've never felt discriminated against or inferior because I'm a woman, I know I'm equal to anyone else, male or female and that's how we've brought up our 20 year old daughter, she has the innate confidence and self esteem not to be tied down by labels.

It annoys me that pressure to conform is seen as a purely female thing when it's obviously not.
Women are the worst for putting pressure on other women too, I've heard far more anti-feminist tripe from (mostly older) women than from men.

well this thread was inspired by reading a comment in the relationships section where a woman was saying that her P considers her lazy because she is at home with the baby. And then another where the male OP reported his wife's opinion that he'd pressured her into sex as it was her duty as a SAHM. These people are in your own home sometimes. Or they are your parents/siblings.

oh i don't much care what others think of me, and i was raised not to much question myself vis a vis being female etc however the older i get the more i see that if i had played a more stereotypical female game in the workplace i'd have done better, or if i'd been a male with less talent i'd have done better. so your dd may yet come a cropper, malificence, i wouldn't feel too cocky on her behalf just yet.

It might be impossible to win, but in a way I believe that women do have a lot more choice than men.

I think a lot of women give themselves all the pressure.

I had a good career but hated my job. After I had my DS i worked part time and completely changed my career to something that I enjoy. My DH enjoys his job, but a lot of men are trapped in jobs that they hate, and cannot leave or retrain as they are the main breadwimmers and have a lot more pressure on them.

Also a lot of men have other pressures on them now. My friend is a beautician and has a massive increase of men coming to her for waxing as they are under pressure to be non-hairy (these are not all gay men!).

i wonder if it would be such a given if it wasn''t for the pay gap, though. much as it's great to stay at home with the baby etc, i wonder if most people just go with the biggest salary keeping working?

but they arent traps there are stereotypical narratives.and as many folk post on mn that their sahm status is questioned and they . feel pressured to return to work.so not even necessarily applicable to all

certainly i never had pressure to be sahm,in fact after telling friends,family,colleagues i was pg the next question was when are you coming back.it was a given i would.in my experience all pg colleagues have returned

many men have pressure too- body image,perfect pecs,provider,stellar career

and pressure is applied by both genders.ive heard women bitch about so and so has arse size of a planet

maybe the biggest myth holding women back is myth of the sisterhood.alleged allegiance and solidarity based upon gender alone

Malifence, what a rude, superior post that was! I don't remember saying anything was such a struggle. Just joining in the conversation.

How patronising!

i agree with mali sentiments.this constant diatribe of poor me poor put upon womankind.all a bit fatalistic

and as arrogant to suppose all narratives apply to all women.in actuality we are all different and women arent a homogeneous group

for some those narratives will apply, for some they wont

yes,thats what im getting at,some of this is fatalistic put upon poor wimmin.i dont agree with a of lot sentiments on this thread

i was getting that, SM.

Never been told by a boss to "smarten up a bit" (i.e. put something slinky on woman!), or by colleagues that your (smart) dress that "very eyecatching"? You are very lucky.

I am not sitting around feeling sorry for myself, mostly I feel cross on behalf of other people, and by sharing stories people can see that it's not just them, there's a pattern where women are set up to fail in many situations.

Sorry, but bollocks. It's mostly just stuff in the papers, not in real life. It's just journalists trying to think of something to say and wanting to be controversial.

I don't consider myself a particularly special person, but I have never been criticised in any of the above ways. If someone did criticise me like that I would quite seriously tell them to piss off and ask them who did they think they were.

my job doesn't require slinky.im not disputing these things happen. i do think there is a fatalistic flavour,of life is shite we are women on this thread

It isn't bollocks, I have a high bollocksometer. If you're not on the board of your company, it's because "women choose to be at the low levels", but those who do get there "slept their way to the top". These are things I've heard, I'm not reading the Daily Mail FFS (although it's still a bestselling paper and many people believe it).

well sorry I'll try to juggle muffins and wear a funny hat while I talk about gender-based double standards scottishmummy. Is it a leap of imagination too far for you to get that your personal experience is not, in fact, the only one that counts. "No discrimination for me, so it's all fine and dandy!"

scottishmummy - I would probably have agreed with you before I read The Equality Illusion and started reading the relationships section on MN....