Traps For Women & Girls

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I've been thinking about how a lot of the time it is impossible for a woman to win when it comes to choices.

For example, it seems that everyone is very keen for mothers to stay at home, especially those with small children (should say that this is second hand, I have no DC yet). Public opinion, childcare costs, media etc all make clear that that is the right choice.

And yet when they do they become expected to do all the housework (even at weekends), vulnerable to charges of being lazy, "ladies who lunch", overprotective etc.

And if they work part-time they are often seen as uncommitted at work, and still have all the downsides of being SAHM.

Or if you wear make-up and heels some people will judge you as a bimbo, but if you wear a t-shirt and jeans and trainers, then you are probably depressed or a lesbian (nothing wrong with being gay, just a stupid judgement to make on appearance alone) or not making "enough" effort.

Was wondering if anyone else had examples of being caught in these kind of traps?

I have experienced loads of sexism in my life, and loads of times when everything has been fine and dandy.

What made me a feminist was the treatment that I got from men when I was a teen/early twenties. I don't know how you can bring someone up to "see past that", really. There is the "laugh it off" approach but that doesn't stop the problem. Or see it as normal, or not a problem. But for the people who do see it as a problem, that doesn't help them.

I have also experienced sexism at work - I later found out that the industry I was in has the largest pay gap (a staggering 40%) which made me feel a bit better about things. Incidentally I only found out I was being treated unfairly by accident - I wonder how many people (like me) assume that things are even-handed and never find out that they weren't?

having said that, my education and degree (in a very male subject) were excellent and I never felt constrained at all.

I find it hard to believe when women say they have never had anything sexist happen to them - but then talking to colleuages at work they would not think anything of eg a stray hand on the bum in the pub, something that always made me very angry.

So I guess it's a matter of perception?

imagine telling the suffragettes/activists the majority of them lack confidence and wont amount to sweet fa.

Even at 3 my DD says things are for boys or girls, based on what she has learned at nursery. She also goes on colour coding blue/pink. Again this only happened when she started at nursery. Ditto suddenly talking about being pretty etc etc.

I do think that these messages are very hard to ignore, and to blame the parents is overly harsh.

I don't really understand this idea that many of you don't care what other people think about you. What other people think about me guides me in how to construct friendships and relate to people, what elements of my performance I need to improve at work, how I should bring up my children and so on.

I can't just exist in a vacuum of always knowing what to do; I have to respond to the judgements and personal advice of others. So it is an important life skill to know which parts of other people's judgement are based on me and which are based on sexism, and which are based on something else entirely.

oh do give over sm, you know perfectly well that stating that many young women lack confidence is not a put down it's a statement of fact.

the op is a ropy generalsing premise.followed by lots more hyperbolic chants

honestly if a man came on here saying majority girls lack confidence,cant resist sinister messages,blame the parents. you'd all combust

a woman says it, is that ok?

talk about a woman putting the boot into other females - nice

I don't think lacking confidence is a negative character trait.

actually i wouldn't combust, I'd be fine thanks.

Anyway moving on.

BTP when I challenged my unfair pay I found myself out of a job in short order. (Long story)

I was not about to have a court battle with a huge mulinational TBH and the idea that people can sue for this sort of thing misses the point that many people can't/don't want to for whatever reason. (The previous cited lack of confidence being one of them).

Not all individuals are strong enough to challenge everything all the time, which I guess is why people like to talk on here so much.

Challenging the stray hand on the arse is hard when you're 16. It's a shock and you don't know what to say. Friends think it's funny. If you challenge you get a difficult reaction. You can't blame people for not challenging inequality every time they encounter it.

That's why I, for one, need passionate vocal confident people to fight my battles for me. I can't do it all by myself. I'd be unemployed and a social pariah.

I agree with ISNT. I can't go around being strong and challenging things constantly. I'd like the support of many other people in society to change things.

sm, the vast majority of young girls lack the confidence required to shrug off very powerful messages. This is not the same as saying they have no confidence in any area of their life. Children aren't born with confidence- it is instilled in them by their experiences.

I am going on my own experience of teaching for eight years- not exactly watertight stats, but it's all I've got.

Part of what you have described is actually an improvement, Elephants.
Just one example, 50 years ago there was no competing judgements about SAHM/WOHM, you just stayed home like a proper woman.

I know people here consider the notioon of choice feminism as too simplistic, but the right to choose (big and small things) for oneself is important, and hard won. The flipside of that is criticism for those choices.
The criticisers aren't a homogenous mass, either.

My point is that it shouldn't require confidence in order to be treated equally.

It's just not girls either, how many wworking women don't feel "guilty" about working at some point? Maybe it's just the people I know. I don't know any men who say they do though.

That's true wukter.

With each step comes new challenges. Not least is lots of people saying "right that's enough, right there, that's good for me, can we stop now please!"

i meant mothers, not women

If you don't let sexism get to you, then is that the same as not noticing/ignoring it?

The women I know who don't let it get to them fall into that category. The ones who let it get to them are the ones who get angry and end up on here!

If you don't let it get to you, how does that help the next batch of 16yo with the perrenial hand-on-arse problem?

Wukter, I agree with your point, but many working class women have always worked. Neither of my grandmothers or any of my Great Aunts had the choice of staying at home - they had to work.