Traps For Women & Girls

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I've been thinking about how a lot of the time it is impossible for a woman to win when it comes to choices.

For example, it seems that everyone is very keen for mothers to stay at home, especially those with small children (should say that this is second hand, I have no DC yet). Public opinion, childcare costs, media etc all make clear that that is the right choice.

And yet when they do they become expected to do all the housework (even at weekends), vulnerable to charges of being lazy, "ladies who lunch", overprotective etc.

And if they work part-time they are often seen as uncommitted at work, and still have all the downsides of being SAHM.

Or if you wear make-up and heels some people will judge you as a bimbo, but if you wear a t-shirt and jeans and trainers, then you are probably depressed or a lesbian (nothing wrong with being gay, just a stupid judgement to make on appearance alone) or not making "enough" effort.

Was wondering if anyone else had examples of being caught in these kind of traps?

there is no one definitive book,no one definitive message.all authors all books have agendas.i despair of the fatalistic trotting out of dysfunction and misery stats as if thats all we can look forward to

As much as we as grown women can proclaim that we don't care what anyone thinks of us (although I believe this to be bolleaux), young girls cannot say the same.

Of course they can buck the trend, fight and refuse labels assigned to them about their career, looks, promiscuity or lack thereof- but why the fuck should they have to?

Of course women reinforce dichotomies; that doesn't mean that they are responsible for inventing them.

And another of course for good measure

is it a leap of experience to not apply hard times and school of hard knocks to all women

yes undoubtedly sexism occurs to some women,however doesnt mean we all experience inequalities same way or same degree

so whilst of accusing me of saying not me,no siree,so unimportant.consider that just because you (or anyone else) has experienced inequality doesn't make it a given for all

this thread is fatalistic we are all fucked sentiments

Agree with sm and Mali.

I think Mali makes an important point as well - that perhaps it's important to bring daughters up to believe they can do whatever they want. That's something my parents did very well, they also had a strong rhetoric of doing what makes you happy being more important than anything else.

I still think I could do what I want. I haven't climbed greasy poles because I have a disabled child and feel
that any work I do has to be around him (and the other two but practically it's piss easy to sort out childcare for them compared to ds1). But that's my choice.

I can't say i've ever felt discriminated against at work. There was a very laddish sexist culture at college looking back (buy of a shame as the college had only just started admitting men) but I can't say I've come across much since then.

But I really don't give much of a damn what others think anyway. And I don't feel any need to have high status at work or be a perfect mother.

I don't understand how talking about a problem is the same as wailing that there's no solution, sm.

Surely you have to identify what's going on in so many words, before you can hope to do something about it?

fatalistic to infer it is a life we will inevitably live.some unfortunately will.and some fortunately will not

attitudinal beliefs and self efficacy important too.if one believes a woman's life is lived full of potential pitfalls and inequalities isn't great starting point.in fact it is fatalistic and suck it up ladies,the lads have us beaten

a more pragmatic approach is,shit happens.will try deal with it best i can.that acknowledges inequality with assuming we will be down trodden just because

"shit happens" is fatalistic. "let's see what some of this shit is and if it can be removed" is practical IMO.

But I think we fundamentally differ on this, in that you don't think there are any gender issues as such? (correct me if wrong, I'm recalling something you said the other day)

The one I found difficult to deal with when I was in my teens was the whole dealing with unwanted approaches from men thing.

If you told them to go away they would often react aggressively
If you told them to go away but said it very politely they wouldn't go away
If you politely ignored them they didn't go away.

So it was a bit a a trap in that you either has to go along with talking to some bloke who you didn't want to, or risk someone being aggressive with you. A bit of a no-win that one.

A tiny proportion of young girls have parents who give them the confidence to shrug off incredibly powerful messages they receive. What of the majority?

Of course there's the too fat "disgusting" -v- too thin "not a real woman" issue too.

agree, tethersend

It's great that you do, BTP- but surely there should be a way to impart the message you are giving your DC to everyone.

fatalistic is to say majority of girls lack confidence

"A tiny proportion of young girls have parents who give them the confidence to shrug off incredibly powerful messages they receive. What of the majority?" how the hell can you justify such a derisory statement,and you know this do you

cycling christ a man wrote that you'd all be rightly apoplectic

a woman rights it and is supposed to be what?empowering?

i think the 'bring them up not to notice' thing is a big lie, though. i was brought up that way and only notice in retrospect that the men i worked with starting out have bigger houses and better cars than me, because they earn more money. might depend on your industry of course, but sexism rife in mine despite or perhaps because of large amount of female writers.