Traps For Women & Girls

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I've been thinking about how a lot of the time it is impossible for a woman to win when it comes to choices.

For example, it seems that everyone is very keen for mothers to stay at home, especially those with small children (should say that this is second hand, I have no DC yet). Public opinion, childcare costs, media etc all make clear that that is the right choice.

And yet when they do they become expected to do all the housework (even at weekends), vulnerable to charges of being lazy, "ladies who lunch", overprotective etc.

And if they work part-time they are often seen as uncommitted at work, and still have all the downsides of being SAHM.

Or if you wear make-up and heels some people will judge you as a bimbo, but if you wear a t-shirt and jeans and trainers, then you are probably depressed or a lesbian (nothing wrong with being gay, just a stupid judgement to make on appearance alone) or not making "enough" effort.

Was wondering if anyone else had examples of being caught in these kind of traps?

activists who accept male power and assert the majority of girls lack confidence,and blame the parents. im saying have self efficacy and mastery of own destiny.just because inequality does happen and could happen.doesnt mean you have to accept and acquiesce to it. take your own path,dont accept such a gloomy premise

I don't accept that all individual men have lots of power, obviously, or that I am in thrall to every man who crosses my path.

But there's no denying that men are in charge, everywhere in the world, and that women are only recently starting to get somewhere with improving their status, and there is a long way still to go.

There is still a gender pay gap
Most women who are raped still don't report it and if they do they rarely get very far to a conviction
Single mothers slated in the press while single fathers get barely a mention

The list goes on and on, and that's just in the UK. What is happening to many women around the world because of their sex is unbearably horrific.

i don't understand what is wrong with having this conversation. Surely it is more fatalistic not to have this conversation and allow all of these things to go unchecked.

so in that case why when anyone says rise above it, forge own path do they get slapped down and told not that easy,the system and male power

what you on about isnt,im actively participating no one is saying dont discuss.now you are havering

really that is fatalistic thinking.the system eill overwhelm and crush,and hand wringing it not that easy.so what is achievable then?

Some people are able to rise above it, by dint of their personalities etc.

Some people are not.

Should the people who are able to rise above it, say I'm alright jack and ignore all the people who do not have the same fortitude/skills etc?

It's like when Xenia says "well teh answer is for all women to have 6 figure salaries and never be dependent on a man" - good in theory - but not an option open to every single woman on the planet.

Millyr - re working women, I come from a long line of working mothers myself, but the debate today is framed around personal fulfillment in wohm/sahm, not keeping a roof over one's head. There isn't, nor hasn't been much debate there, you do what must be done.

we seem to be at cross purposes, beertricks. it was "Well, if you're not going to rise above it where are you? Underneath, that's where" that i found glib.

i don't think anyone would argue with you, sm, about us as individuals not tolerating sexism, but it's interesting to see what might be achieved as a collective. you're not trying to argue that women are in charge of govts, banks, industry, are you? and that this is because women are less talented or capable? i don't personally see the bleating that you do on this thread, though.

what is havering

I took your comments about this thread being fatalistic and we should just stop whinging and get on with it etc as a sign that in your opinion we should not be having this conversation.

anyway sm, five years of rising above it, challenging it and expecting things to change (having been promised this faithfully by male boss) achieved bugger all for my friend. plus, it's tiring always being the bigger person, it wore her out.

or like when op says everyone is very keen for mothers to stay at home, especially those with small children

that isnt achievable or desirable for all.nor is six figure salary

and one would hope those fortunate people,acknowledge good fortune and circumstance and act equitably to all

havering is talking rubbish.

well isnt you really shouldnt paraphrase or assume

given ive been contributing, and like robust discussion why on earth would i seek to censor

unless you mean your own wishes

For some people, talking about negative experiences they have had or negative experiences they are currently facing, and having other people agree that their perception and experience is valid, is a step towards building confidence.

What Len said.

I'm not sure as well how bringing up my 2 girls to abhor inequality will actually help anything. Surely me joining with others to try and lobby/agitate for change is much more likely to yield results?

and equally women discussing their achievements and choices is empowering

Yes, I agree SM. And most people will experience both states of mind over the course of their lives.

Righty-ho.

What would you have everyone do about these issues then?