I think I might call this a day

[ISNT]

I just feel so miserable that we are not able to actually discuess women's rights, on the women's rights section, seemingly ever.

All we ever talk about is men and I'm just really fucked off and bored with it. I feel like people just keep coming and stamping on my head.

ISNT I know how you feel - but like others can I add my 'please don't go'. Have a break, get some perspective and come back. This section is my first stop on MN these days and I would hate to see it impoverished by your loss...

here makes one think twice about helicopter parenting and those parents that allow their children far too much freedom.

Well this is a public board with which this feminist section is part of so many who will have a different viewpoint will take part. Personally i think input from many different viewpoints is a good thing (except people who are simply trolling of course) because like it or not there is a large world out there and changes will affect all people whatever gender they are. I also think it's better to have discussions than for people to just be agreeing with each other. People are also reading and taking on board what is said.

(Also in the disabled thread i think the posters are more interested in what about the disabled rather than what about the men)

ISNT, and other feminists on here, please don't stop posting!

I agree about the derailing and how demoralising it is. We probably get a more concentrated dose of misogyny on here than most of us encounter in real life. It is intense stuff, but resisting that and fighting for what one believes in is usually difficult. The FOSH thread displayed much more misogyny in a couple of days than I've seen over a much longer period in my own real life experience.

All the misogyny that we see on this forum shows there is more of a need than ever for feminists to stand up to the backlash and general ignorance of feminism that finds its way onto this section of Mumsnet. Unchallenged misogyny will definitely win. If we challenge misogyny and the evidence stays on these threads, there's at least a chance that it might help women, perhaps in ways we can't even imagine yet.

These boards are accessible to everyone on the web and as one of the few parts of the web with a thriving online feminist community, this forum has the potential to help people wanting to develop their feminist thinking. I know trolls have found us from Google searches too but I think they will be in the minority.

I think another problematic feature of this forum (and feminism in general) is the impact of "choice feminism". I think that is often being distorted into, for example, "if a woman feels empowered by being a prostitute or lap dancer, how dare so-called feminists deny her that choice of career. It's disgraceful that so-called feminists claim to help women yet condemn what a women does". The patriarchial backlash has encouraged that interpretation.

So you don't have to go you make things interesting and whether or not someone is arguing with you they may still take on board what you say you will be surprised i know i have thought of things i didn't before.

AMumInScotland wrote "I'm assuming there are feminism forums out there?".

I wish there were, but I've not found any, that last for long. They either fizzle out through lack of posts or the hosts decide that it is too much hassle and they close the boards. If anybody knows of any other thriving feminism forum out there, some links would be welcome!

Hello, just got back from taking teh DDs out.

Feel a bit that I blew a fuse and chucked all of my toys out of the pram, and started a thread like this...

I am actually far too addicted to leave it alone TBH, athough I have hidden most MN topics now as I was getting so wound up.

Thanks for the kind words everyone, and of course it's true that it's important for views to be challenged, I said so myself the other day on the "what about all these trolls" thread. It is nice to know that some of what we say helps people decide on their own views, and TBH I am still new to all this and forming my own views about a lot of things and so it's good for everyone really, that all ideas are represented.

Sometimes it does get very tiring, I will look to Dittany's example for strength I think and maybe hide a couple of threads...

glad youre not going Isnt-you say some very interesting stuff.
i agree with what everyone else has said.

Glad to hear it, ISNT.

And, also, some of the things you were talking about in your OP - I'm a regular poster to the Feminism section, as you know, but I still had a different opinion on the trans threads to you and Dittany and Sakura et al. So even shutting things off to just Real Feminists wouldn't always help!

You are educating people on this board. And you have to remember that some 'but what about the men?' questions are genuine 'I don't understand how this works, can you explain further?' questions.

I have averted my eyes from the gollywog threads...

Posie are you going to start a thread about that article?

I don't agree with all feminists on this board so as tortoise says - hiding all but feminists wouldn't help because we're not homogeneous and we don't agree on every facet within a discussion.

I think that this forum is brilliant, even with the trolls because there are the odd few posters who change their mind and if there are some of them, think about all the lurkers. This is something that the offline feminist groups couldn't achieve because they were preaching to the converted, but this way, we're converting at least some people who're unsure. We need to collect more supporters for the feminist movement and this is a great way of changing peoples minds and spreading the word.

Why have you assumed that it is only disabled men who are being enabled to use prostitutes?

ISNT - I read all the threads in this section even though I only post on a few.

Well done to all who debate back and forth when some of the threads go ballistic. I already spend to much time on t'internet and often feel that I don't have the energy for some of the discussions.

The fact that people come and "invade" here means that we're touching a nerve!

The article in the OP of the other thread is about disabled men being enabled to use prostitutes, pawmum.

I feel exactly the same way.

I was thinking about this earlier, and it seems to me that it happens pretty much every time somebody talks about a social justice campaign, it will be derailed by someone talking about another social group. The person who does the derailing then says it is all just competitive victimhood, but they are actually the person who is competitively comparing groups!

Social justice campaigners in general are not interested in demonstrating that gay people/women/religious minorities are worse off than ethnic minorities/people with disabilites/working class people. They simply want to focus on a specific campaign, which is what many feminists on here would also like to do.

What feminsts are trying to do is talk about what the oppression of women means in our lives and how the negative experiences that are unique to women as a group can be combated. I am well aware that other people are having a tough time too - feminism is not the main social justice campaign I am involved in. But I would just for once like to be able to talk about the oppression of women - including myself. Clearly this is not the space for that to happen.

I think the derailment is done not just to stop us talking about ourselves, but also by constantly bringing up exluded groups of men, it detracts attention away from the privilege that men hold.

I second that, LeninGrad. I've learnt an awful lot from here (have learnt from you too, LeninGrad!) if it is making people think about issues they had never before considered, then these are things that need to be discussed.