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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I think I might call this a day

132 replies

ISNT · 16/08/2010 08:43

I just feel so miserable that we are not able to actually discuess women's rights, on the women's rights section, seemingly ever.

All we ever talk about is men and I'm just really fucked off and bored with it. I feel like people just keep coming and stamping on my head.

OP posts:
EldritchCleavage · 16/08/2010 17:24

Don't go-it's really important to have this topic and to have good discussion on here. This page has completely re-energised my commitment to feminism (especially at work, where I'm now one of the more senior women) and provoked a lot of thinking. I lurk a lot more than I post, and I expect there are a lot of women who do that.

Even some of the twerpy posts are informative, in a roundabout way. They remind me how important it is that we do keep working and plugging away at the arguments.

LeninGrad · 16/08/2010 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kittywise · 16/08/2010 18:25

Yeah but without the men you wouldn't have anything to complain about. So they are important really, aren't they?

LeninGrad · 16/08/2010 18:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Miggsie · 16/08/2010 18:36

There are always going to be people who want to maintain a cultural norm (no matter how repulsive) and defend vested interests in the status quo, so social reformers have had to fight for things such as: the vote for men who were not Lords, for the repeal of slavery, rights for men who were poor to go to university, votes for women, the right for women to go to university, for the minimum wage, equal pay, ending of gender discrimination etc etc.

The reason people had to fight for stuff like this is the number of people who have an interest in not changing anything. The peasants revolt and the Jarrow marchers were making legitimate points about poor people unable to earn money and dying of hunger, but it ended up as a "don't rock the boat" debate with the vested interests winning as they controlled both parliament and the police/army. The peasants were executed for standing up for themselves and not obeying their "betters".

We still have to fight social oppression and exploitation and I see feminism as one group that does that.

OverEasyEggs · 16/08/2010 18:42

i'm a lurker normally, occasionally post. this topic has taught me lots.

also i read a bit about feminists actually thinking more of men than 'non feminists' to my dh. Saying that feminists credited men with being adults and having self restraint, whereas they're often not credited that way (eg 'you shouldn't wear a short skirt a man might not be able to contain himself and rape you' ditto with women drinking etc' or my mum's classic the other day 'he (my dad) doesn't need to know how to use the washing machine, he's got me' !! Shock Treats a grown man with a 6 figure job as an infant who can't work a washing machine!!) Anyway, point is he brought it up again the next day and said he'd been thinking about it. Has led to lots of interesting conversations between us.

so, don't stop please isn't Smile

hmc · 16/08/2010 18:46

People will always disagree with your opinions and heartfelt beliefs - no reason to throw in the towel though. Although it can be exhausting at times. Stick with it.

LadyBiscuit · 16/08/2010 18:53

I don't even know what the FOSH thread is - have been far too busy of late to have any space left in my brain for interesting discussions but I really value your posts ISNT and I for one am very glad indeed that this topic is here, even if it does get tired rehashing the same arguments. On another board I'm on there is a Hooters discussion and very few women have even contributed, such is the level of exhaustion of constantly battling on a male-dominated board. So MN feels like a breath of fresh air compared to that.

Pogleswood · 16/08/2010 19:14

I've just come home and switched on to this,and have to join the chorus saying don't go,ISNT!
The MN Feminism Section Needs You....

I too have learnt a lot here,and changed my mind, or clarified my thoughts to the point where I could argue my case if I had to, on some issues.
Before this section started I had got to the point where I was wondering if feminism was still a valid stance,or if I was just an unreasonable harridan and the non-feminists/anti-feminists were right.

The 20:1 lurker to poster ratio is a bit scary though - it is easy to feel that you are online chuntering away in a fairly private setting!

grapeandlemon · 16/08/2010 20:45

I absolutely love this section and it's what I read most of. I have learnt so much from the posters here and have really had a revival of what I was active in at university and my formative years. I lurk a lot but have so much admiration for all the posters here, thank you all.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 16/08/2010 21:02

Haven't read thread yet but wanted to say a) I know, but b) please don't go.

If it was easy we wouldn't still be trying to get stuff done after who knows how many centuries of trying. But knowing that people like you are out there - and being able to talk to you - is what keeps some of us going. Nothing worse for feminism than thinking you're all alone.

sixpercenttruejedi · 16/08/2010 21:19

late to respond but agree with all calls for you to stay. I'm a pathological lurker, rage at the screen but can never bring myself to post, and it's great to see others articulate what I can't really express.
It reminds me of when Melissa McEwan at Shakesville talks about teaspoons. It's how about we all have only so much fight in us, but as long as there's enough of us on one side, there will always be others to take up the slack. Will try to find the post.
Take a rest but please come back to post. The fact that this forum is so public and easily accessable is what makes it so important. The trolls always lose in the end here.

sixpercenttruejedi · 16/08/2010 21:28

not the one I was originally thinking of but I think it a good post anyway
shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/05/more.html

Mbear · 16/08/2010 21:29

I am a lurker on the feminism boards, and I have learnt so much and really developed my ideas and thoughts from these discussions and all the posters.

I thought I was pretty well informed and enlightened, but lots of things I thought have really been crystallised. I would say that sometimes the naysayers help me see the rubbish arguements that are put forward in favour of men - so the fight can be useful! Don't go.....

Original poster
ISNT · 16/08/2010 21:57

Am still here and really embarassed now Blush

Thank you for the link sixpercent will have a read.

All the lurkers - is great to see you posting Smile

OP posts:
LeninGrad · 16/08/2010 22:04

This reply has been deleted

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TheGruffaloMami · 16/08/2010 22:42

Another lurker in total agreement with sixpercenttruejedi. Does this change the lurker : poster ratio ?!i

smallwhitecat · 16/08/2010 22:50

This reply has been deleted

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TheButterflyEffect · 16/08/2010 23:01

This reply has been deleted

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sixpercenttruejedi · 16/08/2010 23:19

small white cat - just ignoring them is fine in theory but some trolls over the past couple of days have just posted and posted regardless. It is disruptive and done with bad faith and malice. Posters tried to keep the discussion on track but this troll physically pushed it out by filling the whole thread.

Appletrees · 16/08/2010 23:31

I have to say I hate a lot of this topic as being too "intellectual" often and talking rather than walking. but I like your often very pragmatic posts isn't. it IS a victim too of the barging in that mm is prone to... "i have a problem with my nanny/bottlefeeding/prep school" etc cue "well you shouldn't have a nanny/bottlefeed/send your child to private school" etc endlessly etc. it's the nature of the beast. don't stop or be ground down by it.

Original poster
ISNT · 17/08/2010 08:51

swc the reason for this thread was outlined in the fourth post. It was a culmination of days and days of trolling/derailing.

As for the disabled/prostitutes thread, posters who do not normally post in the section came over in order to stand up for the right of disabled men to access prostitutes, and when people stood up for prostitutes, we were told that we were disablist. Also many interesting questions were not engaged with. And I'm not sure "I think this is a pack of lies so we mustn't talk about it" adds much to a conversation either, rather it is an attempt to shut it down.

If people wish to support the "right" for men to access prostitutes with teh full support, knowledge faciitation of the state, then that is their lookout, but they should not be shocked and outraged when people who look out for women disagree.

OP posts:
Original poster
ISNT · 17/08/2010 08:54

Are we going to have to have a big argument about it here as well? I have hidden that thread as it upset me so much why can't people leave it alone.

OP posts:
Sakura · 17/08/2010 08:57

chin up ISNT

scottishmummy · 17/08/2010 09:13

your premise is flawed you assume feminism only imacts upon women?think again.we live in a mixed society where decisons/ideologies/theory impact upon the many.and if you are talking rape yuo cannot take men out of the equation (since most allegations of rape are invoving men and women)

this ickle preciousness that wimmins issues must be discussed a certain way, follow some determined path and absolutley nae fuckin men is bonkers

men arent a homogenous mass
nor are women.
not all feminists represent my views, i support right to voice a pov,but simply being same gender doesnt mean i have to agree with all women

and if it is doing your head in so much,knock it on the head.take a rest

all this derailed stuff.oh come on so jsut because someone post contentious and/or inflammatory the whole plot is lost?no it isnt it. just makes it a different fight.maybe more robust