I’m widowed, he’s widowed but …..

[Newnewcoffee]

Im five years older with adult children and grandchildren, he’s six years younger with a young adult DC and two primary school age children from a later relationship whom he has 50/50. (Widowed when adult child was 7).

We’ve been seeing each other for eight months. Known each other for five years through work but not same company. Ive not yet met the younger children.

He’d like us to live together eventually, but I can’t see myself living with them, his home is an uproar of toys, mines a bit minimalist. He leaves his robe on my bedroom floor and never pulls the duvet tidy if he’s last to leave the bedroom.

When I first went to his he apologised for the mess, said whilst he was off over Christmas it would all get sorted. It didn’t, to get to the back door you have to step over or push stuff out of the way. there’s stuff piled on the stairs that from what I can gather has probably been there three years. His kitchen prep area is clean but a lot of stuff out, the bathroom is clean.

He’s loving, he’s fun, I can’t wait to see him, we are in contact several times a day, and I love him. He’s drawn me out of a huge black hole of grief, he makes me laugh a lot, something I hadn’t done for over two years. When we are at mine I feel it’s all reasonably good but when I go to his I have these massive doubts. I’ve tried casually discussing it with him and he blames it on being a dad to two little ones, and working hard with his sole trader business. I honestly don’t think he see’s the mess. And of course time without the younger children would have been when he caught up with things but now we see each other …..

I’m being a snooty cow aren’t I?

I not a tidy freak, often leave the kitchen till morning if I don’t feel like it, might live in a bit of a mess for a week but then dash around and sort it out.

I think we are both good for each other, definitely helped each other to make sense of what is/has been difficult lives.

I just can’t help wondering if I can get over the mess, will it improve, is he able to sort it. How can you sort stuff you don’t see or think is important.

He wants to ask my parents to a meal at his, my mum would be appalled at the state of his home. Arghhhhhh.

Do I rip the plaster off and tell him or run away from a great (untidy) man.

Why can’t you just carry on as you are ? Clearly it works when you have your own places . He’s focused on being a Dad . Maybe just let him do his thing & you do yours , at least until his children are older .

I think that's what OP wants to do, but he wants her to move in with him and his young vhildren and that they will be a blended family but OP is 59, has already raised her kids and is looking forward to retirement. Sounds like it's a deal breaker for him. Hopefully OP doesn't give in.

Thank you all

Obviously, I haven’t told you everything and there’s a lot of surmising going on.

It’s typical Mumnet to assume the worst of everything a lot of the time and it’s not like that. If you knew the whole story which I’m not willing to tell you as it will definitely be outing it would make a lot more sense..

I think I’ve got what I want from this post and it’s enabled me to be sure that some of the things I’ve been thinking of are valid as so many of you have mentioned them here.

I’ve known him long enough to be sure that he’s not love bombing me and neither is he looking for childcare. Regarding the meeting of my parents he has already met them a few times as I took him to meet them at their house a month or so ago. The dinner at his is part of a wider celebration that he wants to throw and would be completely understandable if he wanted to invite my parents.

The living together isn’t something we were looking to do straight away but the difference is I thought it would take at least 10 years and he was looking for sooner i.e. probably in 2 to 3 years. Things might change I might decide I’d like to try it but then I’ll be 2 to 3 years older and definitely into my retirement.

He’s far too good to leave and I do love him. Lots of you have disregarded the fact that he was widowed, but that is a major factor of how we get along so well because losing your spouse is nothing like you will ever know until it happens to you. It’s brutal. His relationship breakdown with the younger children’s mother is due to her being an alcoholic. He left the relationship after several years of being abused and he has a restraining order on her.

I realise this is a drip feed but it helps tidy up some of the questions that have been asked and in 30 days this thread will disappear

Thank you to all of you. It’s great to receive so many different views. It’s stuff that your brain runs wildly from one side to the other side of the brain whilst you’re wondering whether you’re doing the right thing and it’s really helpful for so many people to put different perspective on it.

I will of course be telling him we won’t be living together. If I’m doing any childcare, it will be for my own child, but I definitely won’t be a mug. I have a hobby which you can go on lots of holidays and I’ve already booked two for this year with his encouragement as I was unsure about going alone. It was one of my plans I had when my DH passed away that I would do, but I’ve never got round to.

I’ll probably bail out now unless there’s a major up date.

Thanks again

I wouldnt end it now - you are allowed to have a relationship on your own terms. Obviously, if he ends it as he is not willing to concede to the terms, that is different.

I’d let him host the dinner for your parents so you get their insight.

I wouldnt spend time at him if you dont find it enjoyable. And I’d tell him why if he asks.

I would be clear that i was never moving in with him if you prefer living alone. This is not just to do with the mess - but because having your own space for your children & grandchildren to visit is sacred. You may not feel like this. So i would get clear in my mind whether - if he was a super house-proud man - you’d still prefer your own property.

You dont need to preempt anything. He’s not an employer you need to keep happy. You can be clear with him what an ideal relationship looks like to you, as he can with you - and then you decide if youre happy to compromise. It sounds like your minimum boundary is not living together whilst his children are small - and i think this is so reasonable. It’s also important to safeguard your time with your own family.

I was invested in your thread and it's a bit unfair of you to give more details that change what you posted earlier.

My overriding comment which hasn't changed is that 8 months is no time at all.

I think it is unfair to put his young children through yet another change of who they live even in 2 -3 years with when they will be starting senior school. It's a huge upset and they have already gone through one breakup.

I think he lacks judgment to even consider it- it seems a very selfish attitude. And I'd question if all his behaviour is me, me, me.
He may love you and you love him, but 8 months is early days and he seems rather carried away with the happy family scenario without thinking it through.

You are much older than most mums would be with children that age; you'll want to do your own thing, not be tied to 6 years of school exams, teenage tantrums, uni or work choices- do you really want all of that again in your mid 60s? So, you're right to step back.

Sometimes the person is right but the timing isn't. You can still be together but live apart.

It sounds very hard, you obviously love him very much.
the mess would not bother me, it is resolvable.
however having brought up my own boys and seen them off in to adulthood, having my 15 year old step son in my life is something I wouldn’t chose again, and I adore my husband
The situation causes so much discord, primarily because of totally different parenting styles. Currently at crisis point with school refusal and a host of other things. I have no voice, but have to accept the impact on my life. I can’t use any of my own experience and advocate for this boy, yet I’m meant to happily accept the horrendous behaviour.
never again, I was incredibly naive. But this is my experience, lots of people have a more positive outcome

OP I’ve read some of your messages and the way you talk about this man is beautiful. He sounds like he meets you in the most important place in your heart. When I married my husband, actually when we even met as friends years before, the deepest thought I had of him is that he was kind. It’s those kind of parts of a person that are the most important. After all these years and difficulties we can find each other deeply irritating, but the best and most important thing in a marriage or relationship is communication. (It’s also hard!!) I’ve been finding my husband hard work recently and him me too, but his deep down qualities of kindness are something I’m falling in love with all over again. Practice communication with this man. You know yourself and you know him. None of us on here can tell you what to do! But hopefully youve found things that chime with you. I’m dreadfully messy atm with two small kids but really am working at it as it makes my husband so stressed and he’s been talking to me about it for years!! It’s amazing you’ve found someone who has helped meet you and you him in grief. The more I know about grief the more I realise no one outside of what you’re experiencing can understand what you are experiencing, and it’s something that never leaves you, so it’s wonderful you’ve found someone you can sort of connect with in this. My advice would be gentle but you know sort of firm communication, be very clear with your boundaries and kind as you say it. You will both work out a way together and I wish you really the best xxxx

Separate houses are a good way of maintaining any relationship

It’s not a personal insult for MN to ‘assume the worst’ - it’s the lived experiences of other women who are generous enough sharing their own difficult emotional experiences and their time to bother ASKING you questions to ask yourself to flag any patterns that may or may not be obvious by you.

It’s quite basic to ask anyone to reflect on their new partners relationship history and consider if his moving too fast as described by you is love bombing at 8 months when you personally are emotionally vulnerable through grief.

You have expressed your discomfort and sought for your concerns to be explored and validated in a public forum because you are uncomfortable / unable to do this directly with your partner because you are worried about upsetting him.

the difference is I thought it would take at least 10 years and he was looking for sooner i.e. probably in 2 to 3 years. Things might change I might decide I’d like to try it but then I’ll be 2 to 3 years older and definitely into my retirement.

Just in time for the teen years. I know you say you're sure he's not looking for childcare. But his timeline says otherwise.

Lots of you have disregarded the fact that he was widowed, but that is a major factor of how we get along so well because losing your spouse is nothing like you will ever know until it happens to you. It’s brutal.

I'm a widow and I'm very well aware of how vulnerable you can be afterwards and how the loss affects you. He's far away enough from his spousal loss that it doesn't affect his daily life. He's not actively grieving. He's had a significant long relationship since his loss. You're still grieving and feeling the loneliness. As a widow, I'm also well aware of how people can target that vulnerability and loneliness and use it to get what they want, be it housing, childcare, money. I got hit on at a support group for people who lost their spouse. You bet I assume the worst when men are flying some red flags.

But you take from this thread what you will. You've got concerns and I would say they've been validated by some pretty consistent responses.

@newnewcoffeeim a widow dating a widower too and it works well for us. You know when it’s right. When you find happiness after tough, tough years, it’s a very different feeling. In my experience, i really value it, i don’t take it for granted and im very grateful to have that relationship in my life again, when I never thought I would. Good luck to you both - you deserve it

Thank you for sharing your specific experience in this area - something that I spotted could be an issue but didn’t personally feel qualified to raise sensitively - and I am sorry that in your darkest days there were others looking to exploit you. There could be some ‘mirroring’ going on here - the OP is likely red raw with grief and although the boyfriend can resonate from his experience from 15-20 years ago he isn’t experiencing that now.

I know we can't say everyone reacts to grief in the same way BUT it's well known that men tend to move on much faster than women when they are widowed or divorced.

I have friends who are widows and divorcees (both sexes). The women are often content to be alone and maybe have a FWB or nothing at all. But the men move fast into something new- many men can't bear to be alone.

I think it's maybe a hard thing for OP to swallow, but if this is her first meaningful relationship- or indeed any- since her DH died, she is in a very different place to this man.

His bereavement was years ago (at least 11) and although he may still grieve, he's not in the same place emotionally because he's since had another partner and another family.

I think it takes a certain kind of maturity to live apart yet be together in midlife and older age. Many couples do it but the complication here is a young family (his) who will need a lot of care and input for at least 10 years.
That's going to be hard to juggle - not impossible but not easy either.