I’m widowed, he’s widowed but …..

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Im five years older with adult children and grandchildren, he’s six years younger with a young adult DC and two primary school age children from a later relationship whom he has 50/50. (Widowed when adult child was 7).

We’ve been seeing each other for eight months. Known each other for five years through work but not same company. Ive not yet met the younger children.

He’d like us to live together eventually, but I can’t see myself living with them, his home is an uproar of toys, mines a bit minimalist. He leaves his robe on my bedroom floor and never pulls the duvet tidy if he’s last to leave the bedroom.

When I first went to his he apologised for the mess, said whilst he was off over Christmas it would all get sorted. It didn’t, to get to the back door you have to step over or push stuff out of the way. there’s stuff piled on the stairs that from what I can gather has probably been there three years. His kitchen prep area is clean but a lot of stuff out, the bathroom is clean.

He’s loving, he’s fun, I can’t wait to see him, we are in contact several times a day, and I love him. He’s drawn me out of a huge black hole of grief, he makes me laugh a lot, something I hadn’t done for over two years. When we are at mine I feel it’s all reasonably good but when I go to his I have these massive doubts. I’ve tried casually discussing it with him and he blames it on being a dad to two little ones, and working hard with his sole trader business. I honestly don’t think he see’s the mess. And of course time without the younger children would have been when he caught up with things but now we see each other …..

I’m being a snooty cow aren’t I?

I not a tidy freak, often leave the kitchen till morning if I don’t feel like it, might live in a bit of a mess for a week but then dash around and sort it out.

I think we are both good for each other, definitely helped each other to make sense of what is/has been difficult lives.

I just can’t help wondering if I can get over the mess, will it improve, is he able to sort it. How can you sort stuff you don’t see or think is important.

He wants to ask my parents to a meal at his, my mum would be appalled at the state of his home. Arghhhhhh.

Do I rip the plaster off and tell him or run away from a great (untidy) man.

OP, for,a long time, my now DH and I lived in separate houses because we both (at the time) had teen DC and didn’t want to blend families. In reality, he spent more time at mine, but he had his own home and his DC used to visit him and sleep over there. It worked very well - it meant that the DC had a long time to get used to us in each other’s lives without having to live fill time with the other person. We finally got married when the youngest of them were at university.

I don't know why you've said you are both widowed.

He has had another relationship after his wife died (married or just lived with the mother of his younger children?)

His being widowed is irrelevant.
He moved on, entered a new relationship and has two young children from it.
He's got a lot of parenting years to come.

Have you found out why that relationship failed?

You need to be very wary.

8 months in it's all sex and fun.

The long term reality will be different.

Live apart and enjoy it if that's what suits you.

I think his pushing you to move in after a mere 8 months together is while he likes you, he's looking for someone to put much of his domestic load onto. You haven't even met his kids, how does he know you'd even get along? That's not putting his kids first. It's actually not a natural progression to bring a stranger into their lives too soon.

You're in the honeymoon period when he's on his best behaviour, you're infatuated, and it's healing to have someone after such a great personal loss. But you already realize you're not compatible. He's a mess and you're tidy. This will not improve, this is the best this guy can do. You're done raising young kids. He's got young kids.

Keep your boundaries about moving in. Tell him you want to have a relationship but live apart. Tell him the truth, that you don't see yourselves as compatible living together. You're in very different life stages, your kids are adults, you have grandkids to enjoy and are planning retirement while he's in the thick of child rearing with young kids.

8 months in & it has never once been tidy?

Doesn't sound as if it will change.

I would say my house gets untidy.

But I can walk through it all without stepping over stuff & it would never take long to put stuff away!

Why would he want you to move in whilst he is parenting young children/teens?

Why wouldn't he accept that you don't?

Gosh. So many thoughtful replies. I haven’t read them all yet.

not sure how I worked the age thing out either but it was silly o’clock and my mind was overwhelmed with it all and wondering what and how to deal with it.

He’s 54 and I’m 59.

he was widowed first with one 7 year old. Then five years later met someone and had two children but they split when the youngest was 1 due to her having an affair.

to maintain my anonymity, I have changed some of these details a little, but that’s the gist of it

He’s an amazing dad. The younger two don’t have the best of times at Mum’s for a variety of reasons I don’t need to go into. He works exceptionally hard in his own business he doesn’t work from home.

He’s definitely in a bit of a rut with the state of the house and I did help him a month or so ago to sort out the children’s bedroom, but that was because he was getting agitated he couldn’t get on top and I offered as it was a way we could be together and allow him to sort a few things out. At the time I was pleased and I thought it showed that he would sort out other stuff but it’s not happened.

I had told him quite some time ago that I didn’t see us living together for a very long time. For practical reasons regarding him having three children and me four children and multiple grandchildren who I have to stay on a regular basis (my eldest lives abroad and they come for two weeks at a time 2 to 3 times a year).

I’ll have a read and post back later

It’s been really helpful so far, thank you

It's probably been asked already, but I'm struggling to understand how you can be 5 years older than him and he can be 6 years younger than you.

Becoming a step parent, tying yourself to school term holidays, is hardly early retirement.

The relationship sounds great. The state of his house is because he has young children who have toys, and a f/t job.

If he is happy to continue with a live apart relationship at least until his children are grown up what’s the problem?

However, talking about moving in when you have been together 8 months, it does sound as if he wants to live with someone.

Also how do your respective retirement timetables match up?

I think talk the whole thing through with him, from both your perspectives.

You are still in the honeymoon stage of this relationship and you are seeing cracks already, they may be able to be ironed out but it doesn’t look good. I don’t think it’s the right time at all to be thinking, or even talking about moving in less than a year of dating. If you want to continue with this relationship then you need to make that clear from now on.

You don’t say how old you are but I’m in my early 50’s, my dc are now young adults and I could not imagine living with someone with primary aged dc, even if it’s only part time, I like my life peaceful and with less mess (physically, mentally and emotionally).

Tell him how you feel, you need to be honest from the beginning if this is going to work. If he’s upset about it then you know where you stand.

He needs to invest in a cleaner and start to get on top of life. I say that as a piles not files person. But I have a clutter threshold which I don't like to be in breach of. Of course it's hard for him, but he is juggling an enormously busy time and a cleaner will help him to manage a bit better.
I would not want to move in with a very messy person if my home felt like a sanctuary. Especially after all you have recovered from. Maybe keep the companionship for now and see how things evolve.

It sounds like you could have a perfectly happy relationship - enjoy the laughter and regular contact etc but NOT moving in - there would be nothing wrong with continuing like that. However - he has said he wants you to move in. So to my mind it's him that has to make the decision here.

Be honest with him - tell him you don't want to move in (and don't off any timelines as to when that might change - even if it might). Tell him its because of his mess (gently). Not everybody has to be tidy - it sounds like he's clean at least - some people are just like that. But it's totally understandable that you're not compatible with that.

What would be wrong here is continuing with him thinking you might move in someday in the foreseeable future.

another vote for gentle but clear honesty. One of the most powerful things I ever learned, and I learned it in my late teens, is that you can only give what you have to give and other people can only give you what they have got to give. Sometimes with the best will in the world, even the loveliest person can't give you what you want/need and you might want to give a lovely person what they want/need and just not have it to give.

It sounds like your relationship as it is is fine so why rock the boat? Maybe once his kids have left home you could look into moving in together but seems a shame to ruin a good relationship by doing it before you're ready. Once the kids have gone his house will be easier to keep clean and tidy.
I think living apart is the answer to many a good relationship as it's important to have our own space. I appreciate financially it might not make sense.

Your update makes it even more crystal clear. Would your child who lives abroad really want to come and stay with him for 2-3 weeks at a time? If not, you living with him will negatively impact your relationship with your children and grand childreen. You would be crazy to throw away what you have now just to live with somebody else's family, which I am pretty sure it will feel like. It will be him and his kids, and then you.

It's far too soon.

You're blown away by him and possibly great sex.

8 months is a very short period of time.

The fact his wife died years ago is not relevant. He's moved on since then.

I'd want to know someone much more thoroughly before making a huge choice like yours.

You say his wife had an affair. Sometimes, women have 'exit affairs' and although you only know his side if things, it's possible she too found him hard to live with. You just don't know. It's a very big thing to leave a relationship with a 1 year old. There will be reasons why he didn't tick all the boxes for her.

He's in far too much of a hurry to change this from dating to it being a full relationship.

He needs to put his children first. That for me would be the most important thing. Not introducing someone else into their home.

He's not an amazing dad. He can't keep their home tidy. He's already thinking of asking a woman he's known for 8 months to move into their house, when they already have a mum who's moved out.
That is a sure way to completely mess them up.

He seems emotionally immature.

You’ve been together 8mths? Why are you worrying about moving in. Just have fun, and go home to your lovely clean tidy house!
I also wouldn’t want to be involved with young kids, why would you. Just date and enjoy it for what it is. Some of the happiest older couples I know keep separate homes. If it’s good enough for Charles and Camilla…

Seriously? If he doesn't know how to clean up mess before the OP comes around, then he's a sackless so-and-so as my dear dead MIL would have said.

Just popping in to say he’s not wanting me to move in now. He’s thinking sometime in the future but before the children leave home.

I was thinking we could live apart until they move out or go to uni. And I had told him this.

He wants us to be together sooner.

I haven’t met the children because I wanted to be sure that this would be a long-term relationship and they are quite desperate for him to be in a loving relationship. They don’t know about me yet.

And of course time without the younger children would have been when he caught up with things but now we see each other

Don't kid yourself here. I'd like to bet the place looked exactly the same before he met you especially as you say you think the piles around the stairs have been there for 3 years. Someone who has a tidy home and keeps on top of things doesn't create a mess like that in 8 months because they are using the time they would have spent on tidying to date someone.
I had an ex who was renting a room from friends and living in a tip, his friends also seemed happy to live in a tip. I believed him when he said it was difficult because he didn't have much space and it was his friends who made most of the mess. I was a lot younger and dafter... when we moved in together it was just awful with his mess everywhere and he'd storm out every time I tried to address it. And I dont have to have everything perfect either, just things put away and the place clean.
He won't change and it will cause no end of conflict.

I’m being a snooty cow aren’t I?
No

I think we are both good for each other, definitely helped each other to make sense of what is/has been difficult lives.
I think you are placing too much weight on him being a widower and therefore giving him too much leeway/making excuses for him and his mess. He might have been widowed when he was younger and it must have been awful, but since then he's recovered enough to meet, start a relationship and have two children with someone else and split up with their mother and then start dating you. I think you have to get him being a widower out of your head and look at him as a man who has been in a ltr with someone and has two children who he now has 50:50.

I wouldn't be wanting to live with someone else's young children, soon to be teenagers and that's aside from the mess. It's not what you envisioned for your life and early retirement. If you retire early and you are living with them there will be a lot of expectation on you to run the household and run the kids around places if he is still working. You really need someone in a similar position to you, either a widower or someone who is divorced with adult children.

I think you should tell him you don't want to live with him and that is unlikely to change for many years because you like your own space and you like it to be clean and tidy and while he is of course free to choose how he lives it's not compatible with your way of living. If he accepts this you could continue the relationship and see how things develop but if it's a dealbreaker for him then it's time for you to split and find someone more suitable.

You've obviously been through an awful time and he's the first person who has made you feel happy again but you have to be careful with that. He isn't necessarily the right person for you long term just because he's made you feel better and helped you through this stage of grief. Maybe he's the person short term who has helped you to get back on your feet and get ready to actually meet a person who could be compatible long term.

I would be together living apart and tell him you’d only consider living with him
ever he becomes tidy, and when his children are grown up

Agreed. His messy house isn't due to lack of time. Most people I know work full time and have kids (more than 50% of the time) but are still able to clean their homes every week. This guy has mess that he hasn't "had time" to clear for years. It's just who he is and if OP makes a point that she won't live with him until he is more clean and tidy then he will just put the effort in for as long as it takes for OP to agree and then he will be back to how he really is and the mess will be OPs to sort. His argument will no doubt be that she knew he was messy from the start.

He’s an amazing dad. The younger two don’t have the best of times at Mum’s for a variety of reasons I don’t need to go into.

He wants to move someone he's only dated for 8 months in with them. That is not him putting their needs first, which an amazing dad would do.

I did help him a month or so ago to sort out the children’s bedroom, but that was because he was getting agitated he couldn’t get on top and I offered as it was a way we could be together and allow him to sort a few things out. At the time I was pleased and I thought it showed that he would sort out other stuff but it’s not happened.

You're his solution to his messy house. That he was seeing you, has kids, 2 of them half the time, means he does have time to keep a house in order, he just doesn't bother unless you're there to help do the work. He's not going to sort it out. That would be on you if you moved in or he'll get "agitated".

My last just graduated from college, no way in hell would I be moving into some messy guy's place to clean and raise another round of young kids.

You fancy being a live in step mum to young children with none of your own space?

I feel for him, as I would a woman with 3 DC and a business (even if 50/50), it is very hard to keep a house even remotely tidy. I work fairly flexibly but I can see how if I was even slightly busier these things could pile up.

I would however worry about falling back into a caring role if I moved in, so why not just continue to live apart? There’s no real reason to move in either, it’s not like you’re looking to do marriage and having babies again. If he insists I would worry he was looking for a housekeeper and childminder.

So why didn't you say all of this at the start?

How can his children who are still at primary school want him to be in a relationship? (I assume you mean them and not the older ones.)

I stick by what I've said. He should not be introducing you or anyone into a home with kids who have already experienced on break up now or even later .

It's far far too soon.

And what he tells you about his ex partner is his side only. She will have her own side to it.

You're coming over a naiive.

He sounds flaky.

I think a bath robe on the floor pales into insignificance when compared to caring for step children.