I get the vibe she doesn’t like me and I can’t work out why

[ValleyClouds]

I have a friend “Sarah” who is very outgoing and organises a lot of group nights out. I have slowly become an established member of The Group.

Another member, Cleo, appears not to like me. At one event I was with just Sarah and Cleo and we were organising payment for drinks and Cleo very pointedly said “YOU’RE my friend” to Sarah, as if to say “ and YOU’RE not”

Additionally, I’ve organised a couple of things, and Cleo has very pointedly ignored me in the group chat for one thing and sent word to decline via Sarah for the other one

I have tried making inroads with Cleo and invited her out 1:1 - I was completely rebuffed not even a rain check.

I know you can’t be liked by everyone but I can’t see a real reason. I have got a disability and have wondered if she’s just decided she doesn’t have the bandwidth for a friend with additional needs but that just seems really crap.

When we are out as a group theres usually something going on so not much chat but I’ve realised we have got things in common if she gave me the chance.

any thoughts?

But there doesn't have to be a reason.

If we all liked everyone equally, we'd just float around in a general haze of goodwill, and socialise with randoms we met at the bus shelter or whoever happened to be in the pub we went to, because we'd feel the same about everyone.

But we don't. We have close friends, loved ones, more distant friends and acquaintances, people we rub along with because circumstances put them in our vicinity but whom we wouldn't choose for ourselves, enemies, people towards whom we feel indifference or mild/entrenched dislike, people whose presence makes us want to dance with rage etc.

I met someone recently whom I dislike. I find him a terrible bore, dogmatic and incurious. He's not a bad person, probably, and other people like him, but he's not for me. BUT the circumstance in which I met him means we'll be seeing one another weekly for a couple of months, and that circumstance feels valuable enough to me for me to just deal with the dislike.

That's what you need to decide.

Bluntly, when you're in a group of more than a few people, especially one that pre-existed your arrival in it, there will usually be someone who prefers the dynamic without you.

Yup!! Noone should be actively rude to anyone else but if you expect that in every group of friends, every single person in that group will like you then you are destined to be constantly disappointed.

Ive been in many friendship groups in my life and there was always one person in the group I didn't particularly like. I was never rude to them and always polite but whenever they werent present I felt inwardly relieved. I am quite sure some felt the exact same way about me too and thats fine. It is not a reflection on their, or my worth as a human being, and I certainly didnt hate these people in any way, we simply didnt gel and I just found them annoying is all. In life, you arent going to like everyone and not everyone is going to like you and that's ok.

In a weird way, it makes the people you genuinely click with even more precious.

🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈 Yeah course it must have been

But there doesn't have to be a reason
If we all liked everyone equally, we'd just float around in a general haze of goodwill, and socialise with randoms we met at the bus shelter or whoever happened to be in the pub we went to, because we'd feel the same about everyone

Yes- some people's personalities just dont fit well together. It doesnt mean either of them are wrong, they just dont fit. Thats really very, very normal and there doesnt have to be some deep significant reason.

So we are talking about dislike without an obvious reason situation not they killed your puppy type of situation.
When you instantly dislike someone for no obvious reason it's jealousy.

Definitely not he LOATHED me and the idea that he might have fancied me makes me ill 😂

I really value these comments they’ve made me feel loads better

Good. Radical acceptance is very freeing. Accepting that someone doesnt like you and that you are still a person of value is highly liberating- embrace it!

There isnt a person in the entire world whom everyone has universally liked. Show me one of the most popular people you can think of and I can guarantee someone online has talked utter shit about them.

It really isn't. They don't have to have killed your puppy. You simply don't have the kind of personalities that suit one another.

OP, I've noticed that you focus entirely on 'Cleo' not liking you. You don't say anywhere whether or not you like Cleo?

If it's a personality mismatch Then the normal mature reaction is to be neutral, not rude and intentionally singling them out. Not actively ignoring or sending word through a third party. It takes more effort and energy to ignore someone, that isn't indifference. That is a childish way to send a message, that you are jealous and insecure. To the unwise like OP it turns the dynamics into: dance to win my approval. And the victim will try harder to be liked, this gives the jealous person an ego boost.
They feel threatened by you for some reason so they overcorrect in trying to appear confident, secure and "normal" coming off as standoffish or they start excluding you before in their mind you reject them. It gives them the upperhand that the rejection came from them. It's easier than working on their insecurity and facing their issues to just shut you out.

That always assumes it is them at fault though

It doesn’t have to be an emotional response like insecurity, jealousy etc. it can just be a ‘no’. And she may not want to contact the Op directly simply because she doesn’t like her. It’s not complicated.

Do you like Cleo, OP?

When someone doesn't seem to like me I've had the dazzling revelation that I don't really like them and they are picking up on that.

Is she close friends with Sarah? It might be that she's a bit jealous because she thinks you're trying to muscle in on the friendship. A bit like at primary school when someone tries to steal your best friend! I know someone like this. I am good friends with her best friend and she's quite hostile to me and keeps saying her best friend is "family". I just wish she'd grow up!

Sure, but that's in the domain of 'How Other People Should Behave, According to Me'. It's not in your gift to decide how other people act.

She is being territorial about the group/friend or feels threatened another way. You’ve triggered something. Maybe you have something she doesn’t - I had a shitty colleague and it was clear she had a chip on her shoulder about not being married with kids from things she said.

I think we always have to look at ourselves first and what wound is it that still needs addressing which is repeatedly making us vulnerable to same situations.

You have indicated that you feel on the edge of groups - was this an experience in childhood? Sometimes that’s our fear and anxiety - then as an inaccurate blueprint of interaction expectations that we bring to adult situations where our interpretation may be ‘off’ and then that social unease from our slightly skewed perception actually inadvertently causes us to recreate the dynamic we are trying to avoid.

Does any of that resonate?

When we are truly stable and comfortable we would never ask “Why doesnt she like me?” “is it because she is x,y,z” - because we have ZERO opportunities to change that other person directly with those questions. But you could ask “why am I especially sensitive to these types of people / these situations?” - and explore why and then consider what YOU can do to recognise and then attend to and soothe your inner discomfort internally so that your external presence is not implicitly scared, unsettled, anxious, suspicious which will then just create that mood as it’s sensed by others. See her as an opportunity for personal growth - what can I address in me not to be bothered or impacted by someone’s behaviour. Don’t look to blame yourself or her - just observe how you are impacted and why and how you can intentionally move on from it.

Do you like Cleo? A couple of posters asked

I don’t dislike her at all. But because I’m picking up an odd vibe I’m not sure how to act around her.

@Yellowpapersun There might be something to this as I have known Sarah longer but I’m not sure

Don't try to be nice to her, don't ask her out for events, don't even do more than say 'hi' firmly and then look away. Honestly, this is all power play and it's pathetic. Just let her wonder if you like her.

@Rincoe

I had an abusive childhood where my father rejected me and favoured my siblings who didn’t behave well towards me , felt peripheral in the family home

It's not how they should behave it's how they do behave. It's patterns of human behaviour and psychology. There is nothing out of nothing.

Ok I get you OP. I’ve joined groups in the past where someone has been like this with me for no obvious reason, and it used to really get to me. I just couldn’t understand why someone would be so hostile to someone as inoffensive as me and I took it so personally. It did hurt my feelings and it made me question myself and every interaction I’d ever had with them. And then one day I read an article somewhere that kind of resonated. It basically said that someone else’s opinion of you is their business and their problem. If they don’t like you then it’s (usually) a them problem rather than anything bad you’ve done yourself. So don’t question yourself and think back to anything you may have said or done that could have offended them- the chances are there is nothing that you could have done differently and for whatever reason they don’t trust you, or like some aspect of you or feel you’ve ruined the dynamic. I have had this happen to me on quite a few occasions over the years and I found that the more effort I made to be friendly and chatty with the person, the more I seemed to irritate them so of course they rejected me even more. Once I stopped making any effort at all other than polite civility, the person more often than not saw me as less of a threat for some reason and gradually warmed up to me until we became good friends in some cases, and friendly acquaintances in others.

I don't think it's a unique experience to meet people who exclude you or someone in a group acts off for no reason, we live amongst many unhealed insecure people we encounter them every day and sometimes it is us who take an instant dislike out of insecurity. I'm sure everyone has a bad friendship story, it's not you, it's humans. Unless they have the self awareness of their insecurities and prejudices they will keep 'instantly disliking people' it's not that you especially attract them, they are a dime a dozen. All you can do is know it's more about them and their own insecurities that they may not even be aware of.

Yeah….

i asked her to the cinema on Sarah’s suggestion and got :

I am busy for the next few months via Sarah

it felt very non commital and Don’t Ask Again