Opinions may Vary . A genuine question about why Meghan and Harry seem to attract such differing views.

[BasiliskStare]

I post this more in hope than experience but I would be really interested in a proper discussion about those who are fans or supporters of them , those who aren't and indeed ( of which there are many ) , those who are indifferent.

So - I'll start. There was an interesting post on another thread which said M&H come over as David and Goliath , standing up against "the Institution" - my paraphrase.

No spitting , no fighting , mind the furniture 😂

I was happy when they married.
I was sad when they said they wanted out.
I thought they would go and forge a new life out of the spotlight.
Then they did the Oprah interview and wrote the book.
They seem badly advised / don't listen to sense. It is sad for them, and sad fforCharles and William too.
I hope they are happy with the life they have forged, though it is hard for me to imagine that really being true.

They are fascinating. Their behaviour echos the behaviours of my sister in law and brother in law. We lived with fifteen years of drama so similar before these two got married and the narcissistic behaviours just didn’t make sense to the rest of my family. Lies told and denied, gaslighting, bullying and the constant ‘promise’ to never speak to us again (although that would have been wonderful it was never upheld). So many similar behaviours that we just couldn’t understand.

and then t Meghan and Harry married and my family all saw the similarities and narcissistic behaviours happening. It was in a way cathartic to understand

I'll be honest, it's Harry who I'm not keen on more than Meghan. I have always felt a bit uneasy about him, he's always been petulent and entitled. I have never understood why his scrapes in his younger years made him so popular. He always seemed like those braying Hooray Henry types you avoid in the pub on a Friday night. I went to an Oxbridge reject University and anyone sensible quickly learnt to avoid them.

I have relatives in the forces and I always thought Harry being deployed was particularly egregious as it put a target on everyone's backs not just his. I felt it was very wrong and more about massaging his ego than anything else.

Meghan - I'm indifferent to. She's an actress from LA, her inauthenticity is authentic for her. She gives zero fucks about the UK.

I think that for some, it's a case of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. There are many republicans who see them as heroes, simply for being a bee in the royal family's bonnet. Many of their supporters post awful things about C and C, and W and C.

I do think that both Harry and William are very damaged by their upbringing. The damage is both universal and unique (sorry, that sounds poncy) and it’s very sad that they are both estranged from the person who would have some idea what they went through.

I think there are a lot of people who don’t know much about what has actually been going on. They haven’t followed it and have a vague idea that M and H have been done wrong in some way or are making a wonderful new life for themselves and good on ‘em. Anyone who has taken an interest in it all and read the appalling rubbish M and H have put out realise the truth of the matter .
Most people under perhaps 35 have no interest in the RF at all anyway .

It's sad that they're estranged. That's all on Harry, though, writing all that stuff in Spare. So nasty and unnecessary.

What makes you say William is “damaged”? He obviously has the same upbringing as Harry, but he seems to have put in some genuine work to deal with it and seems happy. He seems to have the love and support of his family and doesn’t waste his time whingeing and whining. Why are you portraying him as a victim when it seems he has moved on, unlike his brother. Just because they went through the same experience as young people doesn’t mean they have to be forced together as adults when their paths have clearly separated

I hav some sympathy with the view that H wasn't brought up to properly understand his role was to support his brother. That said I just don't believe QE or PP or someone would not have had a word , even if his parents didn't.

And Harry had ( for want of a better word ) agency. How he did not realise being younger brother wasn't the best job on earth baffles me.

He got greedy.

Or - and I'll say this - his wife did.

Both of them decided they could make a lot of money by selling his family's privacy.

There's just something mind bogglingly cringe about them. Their 'quest' to try and find a niche, a brand, something meaningful they can sell. And failing miserably at every single hurdle.

It really is just a posh guy with a couple of A levels that his nanny completed for him and a woman who used to open the boxes on Deal or no Deal.

I find the vitriol against them interesting, the Spare marries an American, moves to America, goes on TV , writes a book, non of which has any impact on the lives of the vast majority of people living in the UK, and yet it has become almost a sport to hate them ?

I don't get it and probably never will.

I really dislike the pair of them but occasionally feel compelled to defend them, because they do get a disproportionate amount hate. Which I think makes people feel sorry for them/ buy their wine/ flower sprinkles - and any success or attention makes people hate them even more.

Let’s face it, there is an appetite to see them fail: maybe they will, maybe they won’t. It’s a Shakespearean soap opera that’s hard to look away from.

Because I genuinely don’t think anyone could have gone through what they went through without suffering damage. And we really know nothing at all about William except very curated content

Here's what I think - and so everyone can see my bias I am largely in favour of a constitutional monarchy ( with scrutiny )

I think M thought she'd got the jackpot. I think once she had the opportunity to do charity work / represent the Commonwealth in a meaningful way I think she lost interest as the money wan't enough & she wan't going to be top person. Even though she and Harry would be feted and could do Good Things , I don't think she could cope with the stratospheric rise in her fame and I don't think she could cope with - you get the people clapping but it isn't for you per se ( was it PP , then the DoE) who wisely said - they aren't clapping you they are clapping what you represent ( to the Queen )

I do have a slightly disfavourable opinion of Meghan because it just seems from many accounts she did think - I have arrived & I think Harry encouraged this. So I think the freedom flight and much subsequently has gone against them because both she and Harry did not realise RF with capitals is different than rf - ie father , FIL etc

That said - much as I like to giggle at the apricot photos et al I will give her points for trying & Just drop the Duchess and get on with earning the living your marriage has given you an entry to. I think if she did drop the RF connection it would really stop a lot of criticism against her.

Edited spelling

I agree , but without the Royal connection she is a nobody and she knows it .

People in the UK love to look down on America and Americans. Even very highly educated friends of mine will say the most astonishingly ignorant things perpetuating stereotypes.

We have a press that is predicated in propping up the monarchy, and a monarchy which is very good at using the press to manipulate and build support for itself - even at the expense of some of its own members.

Harry, at least, like a lot of his relatives, is a bit thick and a lot entitled, so doesnt always do himself any favours in the way he comes across.

Racism - they are absolutely right that some of the coverage was unabashedly racist. And they dared to hold the newspapers to account.

I think that a large post of the reason they attract so much comment is that there is always something new for the tabloids to write about and people to discuss. Tabloids love creating teams and pitting individuals against each other, they love building someone up one week and knocking them down the next, it's how they keep people clicking on stories.

Harry and Meghan seem intent on doing a lot of that to themselves. Their narrative changes and stories alter depending on how they want to present themselves. They are victims or heroes, dedicated to philanthropy or making money, they are fighting against the tabloids or feeding them stories, they are invited to everything or nothing. They are constantly trying new things and never fix on one thing long enough to see results. It's an endless unfolding story of a couple who had wealth and status beyond most people's grasped and left it all to find a freedom that turned out to be trying to do exactly the same things without any real power or enough money.

Of course they are going to have lots of attention and lots of opinions, they live their lives in public because that is what they want. Their problem is that they demand positive attention only and it doesn't work like that.

I try to approach each new iteration fairly but the longer it goes on the harder it is to believe that the cycle will ever end.

What makes you say William is “damaged”? He obviously has the same upbringing as Harry, but he seems to have put in some genuine work to deal with it and seems happy*

He hasn't though, has he? For a start, he was the heir from the start - being treated differently is literally baked into the family. There are reports of Diana begging the Queen Mother to spend more time with Harry.

William was that bit older when Diana died. Not old enough, for sure. But a little more developed - look at them walking behind the coffin. William is obviously a teen - Harry looks like a little boy.

And we really know nothing at all about William except very curated content

And there are lots of rumours he has affairs and has an explosive temper, to the point where he can rage.

They publicly embrace the worst of the entitlement. hypocrisy and greed of the entire set up and keep it fresh. In short a republican's dream ticket.

Go Harolds, go 😁

harry and Meghan and by extension the royal family is a mix of soap opera combined with psychological profiling documentary. I dislike Harry and I know Meghan is going to at some point be cringe in whatever she's doing. I couldn't watch WLM as I knew I'd be a biased viewer. But I haven't always felt that way. I like many other really liked Meghan and I even tried to defend Oprah in that her words came from Harry. I thought the royal family had learnt its lessons on oversharing but apparently not. There has been times William and Catherine have made me cringe but it's usually unexpected. If however Catherine decided to do a WLC I'm sure it would have it moments but I'd hope she'd have the sense to steer clear. I can see that Harry and William have had damage which makes it worse that Harry chose a path that cost him so much support. Out of William and Harry unless William is really good at masking appears more relaxed than ever whereas Harry appears unwell. I doubt even the unfortunate event of Charles passing would even influence William on reconciliation. Both side claim the other is untrustworthy and yet it's only Harry making noise of a return of their relationship.

Alistair Campbell once said in his podcast that both Harry and William hate the press but that William realised he had to play nice and came to some kind of accommodation with it. Harry just carried on hating the press and blaming them for everything that is wrong in his life. It seems that is the same with all the consequences of Diana life and death. William has spent time working through his feelings (i think Catherine's family has also been very healing) and found acceptance and peace whereas Harry is stuck as a traumatised child.

W and H had bad parents. Both Charles and Diana loved their boys but over-indulged and spoiled them.

W, due to his role as future King had his behavior checked by third parties and discipline was ruthlessly enforced on him. When W wanted to grow a beard before the rules were changed to allow for beard with uniforms he was told no, despite young brother H being given an exemption from that same rule.

By contrast H was left to his parents and grew up with zero accountability. His entire life experience consisted of his actions having no real consequences. For example, if any other officer candidate had cheated on their A levels, they would have been cashiered out of both Sandhurst and the armed forces, but for H no consequences.

It all changed when H's demands of the institution infringed on W's future role. And for the first time in his life H heard the word "No".

IMHO, that is the root cause of the ongoing temper tantrum.