Opinions may Vary . A genuine question about why Meghan and Harry seem to attract such differing views.

[BasiliskStare]

I post this more in hope than experience but I would be really interested in a proper discussion about those who are fans or supporters of them , those who aren't and indeed ( of which there are many ) , those who are indifferent.

So - I'll start. There was an interesting post on another thread which said M&H come over as David and Goliath , standing up against "the Institution" - my paraphrase.

No spitting , no fighting , mind the furniture 😂

Interesting omission of Catherine's many achievements 🤔 The double standards are so obvious too. Personally I think they need to do away with the lot of them.

That's fine. Your opinion. My opinion is that I can't imagine someone being "impressed" by any work done by Meghan.

I thought this thread was specifically about H&M? Anyway, Meghan “did” both projects in the same way a member of the RF “does” anything. And I do remember thinking she was on the ground and interacting with the people involved in a very warm and natural way. Interesting that people are responding to this in a “But what about…..” way.

one side is scoring points with a side not even playing the game.

Interesting point @Vespanest

I know what this thread is about.
I am not derailing. I am just challenging the fact that anything M did when a member of the RF was impressive. I think she did ok, she could dress well and meet and greet. That may well impress you, it don't impress me much.

To add: "she was on the ground and interacting" @CurlewKate ?
A bare minimum, I would have thought.

I am not a fan of either of them but I can't help but admire Meghans drive and tenacity. Despite the protestations of Harry regularly finding her sobbing on the floor I think she actually has a backbone of steel.
She is certainly a v complex and interesting character and I have no doubt she could achieve a lot if she stuck at it. Sadly the other side of her personality means that she constantly shoots herself in the foot ( and blames everyone else for it ). She has zero ability to self reflect and is so fake and inauthentic that everything she does jars with the public. In short she comes across as basically unlikeable.
Harry is mostly still mesmerised by her and has completely blown his image out of the water. He has torpedoed himself with his petty gripes and whinges and really he is in a v vulnerable position now. Whether he grasps that or not is anybody's guess.

But that's really all any of the royals have done? Wills and Kate are going to be King and Queen and do much less than any generation before them. It's an archaic and dying institution, hopefully we will be rid of it soon

Harry was always going to be lost. The best pairing would have been another person who was very rich, and lost just like him. They could have polo'd and drunk themselves silly and all their escapades would have been mopped up by the palace.

Meghan simply misunderstood that the RF is completely wedded the heirachy and she was never going to the "leader" she thinks she is. She thought she could change it to fit her world view. This is a mistake a lot of immigrants (including myself) have made. It must have been a very dark time when she realised that she had commited herself to a depressed, emotionally immature and deeply lonely man in a foriegn country.

I wish her luck with her business, but people only care about her because she is married to Harry. Its not going to get the clout in SolCal she thinks it is when she has to contend with American Royalty like the "Paltrows/Martins" "Brolins" and even the Beckhams etc. but she might be able to marry one of her kids into this royalty and then she can leech off of that connection.

Harry will be completely torn. I can imagine he is incredibly lonely in California and now his kids are there he can't leave otherwise he will lose custody of them. I always hoped that a normal mental health professional woudl have got hold of him, but he has so many charlatans around him because of his wealth that I fear he is at risk of suffering a complete mental breakdown.

Ironically she was doing quite well before she met him. You wouldn't think you'd be worse off marrying a Prince!

I'm mainly fairly neutral about all the royals. I don't get what H&M have done that attracts either great admiration or loathing.

I have a lot of sympathy for Meghan being unwilling to buy into all the petty rules of dress codes and curtseying at certain times and walking in a set order and all that. I'd make a terrible royal wife because I'd not be able to get on board with the always wearing hats and curtseying to my own FIL and I'm not surprised she was seemingly really thrown by all that nonsense.

All the stuff she does now is a bit cringy but I can't bring myself to care enough to actively dislike either of them.

True! She was actually doing well, and doing it on her own terms!

I'm not disputing that. My point, which I have made several times, is to challenge a poster who is impressed that Meghan could smile and engage with people. That is all.

I think you make some excellent points. I think Meghan is a very interesting character. She does have drive and tenacity. Also, I don't know how she puts up with Harry, but that's a whole other thread.

I’m reluctant to turn this into Royalty Top Trumps- but isn’t that what members of the RF do? It’s basically the job description! And for a fervent Republican like me to actually remember and be vaguely impressed by the cookery book thing after all this time, she must (on that occasion) have done more than the “And what do you do?” schtick.

But that's an argument for all of them as H and M are as royal as anyone of them as they've kept their titles and passed them to their children and a whole seperate discussion. They are born or marry into a family that play varying roles it's not rocket science, Harry Invictus, William Earthshot, Catherine Early years just as their parents and grandparents before them. A repiblican argument is never a Harry and Meghan argument as they are not against the hierarchy just their placement.

A wise question from a wise counsellor, professional or not, can put a person on quite well.
Books on depression can throw out one or two useful questions and suggestions.

Maybe William has had a 'better' counsellor than Harry has.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Get rid of them all, they are all a waste of space. Off with their heads! 😉

For clarity,I wasn’t impressed by the smiling and engaging with people. She’s an actress-of course she can do that. I was impressed (that word seems to be doing some heavy lifting!) by (as I remember) her actually doing some work and engaging with the people and the project in a very relatable way. Could have been a snow job-but it’s stayed in my memory.

@Orangeandgold
From my observation, those that support H&M have experience in being “othered” and probably find the “rebelliousness” of H&M admirable. Standing up to a massive institution - your theory of David and Goliath. They also bring out a part of UK history and Britishness that we love to ignore - the way discrimination plays out is silent and hard to identify . And whilst they are both in very very privileged positions, they have spoken out for and tapped into a feeling that only a minority of people might feel - and so I would say that could be why they have fans
I think this is at the heart of why they are so divisive too. They have also aligned themselves with key aspects of some of the major social justice movements so many people that are supportive of these movements will naturally also want to support them. Meghan in particular can be seen as a pioneer in terms of bringing racial diversity to the Royal Family and forwarding a progressive agenda around women's rights. In this context it's easy for H&M to characterise any criticism that they receive as unfounded 'hate' that they are receiving from people that don't like what Meghan represents. I think social justice warriors in particular are more likely to buy into this narrative because they are so used to seeing the world through this lens so will assume that all criticism is rooted in racism or misogyny.

I actually think though that there is something instinctively 'off' about Meghan. Many people pick up on it themselves when the watch an interview or interaction with her. She is inauthentic and disingenuous. Combine this with many many reports of staff leaving under unhappy circumstances, wedding dramas and family upsets and it's hard to write this off as bad press. Yet, if M&H insist that it is actually all part of a vendetta and it's rooted in prejudice then people feel conflicted. They don't want to be part of the problem.

I watched an analysis of the porn star Bonnie Blue and it reminded me of M&H. It basically centred on what happens when someone uses society's buzz words and Zeitgeists to justify bad behaviour and how society doesn't know how to handle this. Most of us feel like we would stand up against a racist and sexist powerful institution to defend a victim but what if the victim wasn't reliable and you felt instinctively that you were being misled. I think this is the position the general public find themselves in.

I think she did pretty well when she was first doing engagements. Meet, greet, chat, show interest, stand and wave from the balcony, draw attention to a worthy cause, it's what royal life is about. She seemed a bit nervous and sometimes uneasy but so does every royal bride. She wrote on bananas and the press made a fuss, it was a bit odd but the comments were out of proportion to the incident in a similar way to the comments on Catherine's dresses catching in the wind.

Meghan was doing fine until she stood in the middle of Africa and tearfully complained no one had asked if she was OK. That was a very celebrity move and I think it was the first time in public that she had confused how royals and celebrities can behave. Cementing get to centre themselves, royals don't. She could have still been successful but for some reason she chose to go down the victim route rather than a life of service.

I don't blame her for leaving, life as a new royal wife is pretty ghastly with all the attention and tabloid pressure. She is much happier as a celebrity because it's what she knows. What I wish she would do is drop the pseudo royal stuff and the titles and commit to being a celebrity. It would remove a lot of ground for criticism and give clearer messaging. She also needs to stop harking back to her brief stint as what she presents as being a royal victim. It's old news and the stories don't add up anyway. It did get no favours at all and taints the chapter of joy with old grudges.

She smiled and talked to people. Fine. I suppose she wasn't in the job long enough to develop anything other than the basics.

I think its mostly a generational thing. Older Brits who respect the monarchy will never like Meghan (and now Harry) who they see as having disrespected it and aired their ‘dirty laundry’. No matter what Meghan does in the future these Brits (and some Americans) can never move past this.
The majority of the younger generation (millennial and younger), never had that respect for the monarchy and value speaking out and being entrepreneurial etc more (of course there are exceptions, as I’m sure there are some millennials in the UK/US who side with the monarchy).
Overall from what I’ve seen, the Royal family board leans towards the older generation so a lot of criticism of Meghan whereas whenever she’s talked about on other parts of mumsnet, the comments are more balanced between support and criticism. I believe this is because mumsnet overall has a lower average age than the Royal family board.

All that to basically say, these threads are never going to give a satisfactory answer to monarchists because they are coming at it from a different worldview from the Sussex fans or people who don’t care either way.
Also it’s been over five years since Harry and Meghan left the UK and people have formed their opinions which are unlikely to change now as much as either side wants them to.
Just look at the endless tabloid articles blasting them daily for so many years, yet they still have fans.
I also think the constant vitriolic articles and posts are turning some of the ‘don’t care either way’ crowd into Meghan supporters as the criticism is so disproportionate.

However, Meghan and Harry supporters must be the ultra monarchists. This pair have royal titles, status, wealth and privilege, without the official work or constraints. They demand special treatment because of their titles. Harry wants limitless taxpayer funding for security. They're not republicans, they're proper monarchists as are their supporters.

But can you answer the question?