Opinions may Vary . A genuine question about why Meghan and Harry seem to attract such differing views.

[BasiliskStare]

I post this more in hope than experience but I would be really interested in a proper discussion about those who are fans or supporters of them , those who aren't and indeed ( of which there are many ) , those who are indifferent.

So - I'll start. There was an interesting post on another thread which said M&H come over as David and Goliath , standing up against "the Institution" - my paraphrase.

No spitting , no fighting , mind the furniture 😂

They are completely irrelevant . . .

Why do people have to be fans/ supporters?
maybe some people just don’t think they deserve the countless threads ripping them apart.

I'm genuinely interested to hear about why people like them.

It was me who introduced the David and Goliath concept. I think that for many people outside the UK that’s how it might look- a massive mega rich institution taking on two individuals. I’m not saying I agree with this or think it’s rational-it’s just a way of explaining why they have fans.

Can I ask why you joined the thread? I never understand why people join threads to say they’re not interested in joining the thread!

Fair point and this is not meant to be one of those. It was intended to be a discussion for those with differing views.

For me, I think it was seeing Harry being pulled away from what had seemed to be his values - working with veterans (I know he’s kept invictus) but the other work he was doing. And then the whole crass attempt to use a visit with HMQ which was supposed to be a family thing for their Netflix show.

Having read biographies of Wallis Simpson it just screams history repeating itself. Except that Wallis didn’t keep trying to make herself relevant / sell generic goods as hers.

And also the ‘we’re fed up of media intrusion’ and the volte face to do lots of media themselves & the ‘drop’ of something by them every time certain members of the Firm do anything, as if they’re constantly going ‘we’re important too!’

They wanted out of the Firm. They can’t now turn around and complain that they’re not being treated as members of the Firm (security etc) - none of the cousins - all of whom are non-working members- have security details provided by the govt.

I think I’m just absolutely fed up of it. Either leave the Firm and get on with it, or come back as working members. You can’t have your cake and eat it ffs.

Oh yikes that turned into a rant! Sorry!

I think the majority of people (who have an opinion) have a negative opinion but that there is a vociferous, and possibly paid, small group of supporters which gives the impression of more divided views.

I am certain that there are paid posters clocking onto Mumsnet threads.

They wanted out of the Firm. No they didnt they wanted 1/2in1/2 out.
You can’t have your cake and eat it ffs. Thats what TLQE2 decided.

Hence the hissy fits, flounce and narcistic rage when MM didnt get what MM wanted.

Do we think if they would have slandered their family, making very serious accusations in a deluge of global interviews, books, docuseries etc if they had been given 1/2in1/2out?

Of course they wouldn't. They needed their Royal adjacency to make $$$$ in the US. The idea was that they would pop back to the UK a couple of times a year for balcony shots etc - enough to spin and rinse that free PR to grow their own commercial endeavours.

They wouldnt have bit the hand that fed it / killed the golden goose etc.

I don't give a monkeys about the RF or H&M but I love reading about them, it's like picking a scab.

Harry has a double dose of Windsor stupidity and entitlement and Meghan is just so false and awful it's compelling.

Watching their lives spiral down the tubes in slow mo while the world shit posts about it is really compelling entertainment because they are just so ghastly that they don't seem like real people at all and yet their spiral really is like a Shakespearean tragedy - all stemming from their character flaws and all taking place on the grand stage of the monarchy.

@CurlewKate - I know it was you who introduced that concept but just wondered if in MN terms it was a bit infra dig (showng my age here - is this still a thing people say ?) or impolite to mention someone on a separate thread . I thought it was a spot on observation.

I've seen a situation where there was extreme bullying going on with a lot of manipulation and lies told by the bullies.
However they were initially very careful to not do this in front of people who might call them out. Those people were then very vocal that there couldn't possibly be bullying and the bullies were really the nicest most terribly treated by people who were just been deliberately nasty to them...
The bullies played this up and manipulated them further by playing the victim.

But that meant that when they did see the bullying right in front of them, they just whitewashed it in their mind. It wasn't meant. It was just badly worded etc. Other people were being mean. It wasn't bullying at all, the victims were just seeing what wasn't there and it was soooo unfair on the poor darling bullies who never did anything...

Because in order to admit that they had now seen the bullying they would have to backtrack and see some of the extreme things the bullies had done. Although some of them are really very lovely people who I would not have expected this, they were happy to go round repeating the lies and stirring up things against the victims.
They had to do this or admit that they were wrong and they had joined in the bullying or at least enabled it.

So rather than quietening down, or trying to look at it objectively, they have to support unquestioningly everything they do. Someone asks where the money raised from a charity event went? They can't possibly look at the likely situation where they did pocket it, so they loudly shout down any suggestions. The bullies now are in the situation where they know they could do anything because the vocal minority will back them whatever, and they can't be questioned.

I see this as something similar. They backed them initially, as a lot of people did. But then people expressed concerns on certain things and there was a group that were very vocal that H&M were so sweet and lovely and anything negative was just made up. And I'm sure they believed it at the time.

But they're now in the situation that if they admit that they've done something wrong that they have to look through all the situations they've backed them on and wonder if they were right. And that is too painful to do, so they want to take away any possibility of H&M doing wrong by lashing out to try and hide it.

oh, I understand that-I was just acknowledging it so that any questions/brickbats would come my way! 🤣

There is a clear contradiction with them that people take one of two ways but I actually read it as a conflict of world views within their marriage.

Harry (quite rightly) has a rather bitter relationship with the media, and the idea of duty. he grew up under that spot light and then his mother dying like she did meaning the idea of privacy is deeply entrenched as precious.

Meghan, however as an actor and American socialite has deliberately courted and monitised that same attention for her career and as a LA resident I think this is pretty normal to her and why shouldn't it be?

There's nothing wrong with either of these approaches but they look kind of crazy when they are trying to do both at once. If you don't have an issue with that then it's much easier to believe the narrative.

Don't forget that we are used to seeing this kind of celebrity drama and taking sides. They are a shiny and attractive couple. She's had an interesting life before they met, has a lovely voice etc.

There is plenty of hostility towards the royal family and indeed overseas (and more local) bafflement at the RF way of working.

Everything is so polarised these days it's difficult to shift your 'tribe' once you are commited.

If they left for Canada and got on with their lives then I’d be supporting them.
But all their interviews etc make them seem like an ex who dumps you and is then outraged when you calmly accept it. In an ideal world they would have got on with things but their pursuit of fame and stunts like Oprah turned them into the King and Queen of clickbait. They complain about the media when they do more than their fair share of encouraging it with news like the non-fatal car chase.
I liken it to people who hate watch programmes like And Just Like That. They know it’s bullshit but can’t help themselves.

They didn't "take on an institution".
They wanted to remain part of an institution on their terms.
They are very royal, being titled, wealthy and privileged. Not some brave, poor republicans.

In a nutshell I don’t like them because they are disingenuous and hypocritical.

The social media world has created a space where people form alliances and with Harry and Meghan instead of handling the comparison of the two wives that was inevitable it became a competition, the two team lines were established early on. Once trenches are formed peoples bias forms their narrative and huge confirmation bias. If you place someone on a pedestal all you can see is the pedestal. Harry and Meghan have played the game wrong, they are in a battle with a side that have chosen not to engage. The void impacts H and M more than the royal family but they have no control over the reconciliation. I do think that there are imbalances for those who marry in that will continue to cause problems. Harry failed in preparing Meghan and Meghan failed in the vision of the promise land. The royal family failed in preparing Harry for a life of accountability and the cost of being royal. Anyone who thinks Harry is living a life of joy is ignoring his visible pain.

Good points, @Vespanest 👍

Did you notice that I said that’s how it might seem to people looking in? I’m not saying it’s night or rational.

Yes, I did notice, and I am countering that argument whether you agree with what you posted or not.

I'll start by saying that H&M irritate me , they are hypocritical, fibbers , with no ability to self reflect.
I went down a bit of a rabbit hole earlier today, reading some of the posts on other platforms by their most ardent supporters. It's as if they feel that they own Meghan , that she somehow knows them personally and is grateful to them for their support, not as a group but as individuals and that at some point they will reap the benefits of being so supportive. I can understand the David and Goliath theory but just can't get my head around these people, if anyone dares to criticise H&M , they turn very very nasty (I've been on the receiving end of it) . I'd love to know why they feel so strongly that they are willing to spend $$$$$ on a product because ' they have children, dogs and chickens to feed' .

Fair enough. I thought because you tagged me in your reply you thought i was expressing my own opinion! My bad, as my children say.

Lots of reasons and I think it is a distinctly English phenomenon.

It’s the Royal Family which plays into our feelings about class and wealth and its also celebrity - the glamour and the status of fame.

It’s also about marriage and family and the tensions within those. And Meghan is very American in the worst way for us Brits.

So I think the whole Harry & Meghan issue is all of our feelings and opinions and insecurities about the above playing out.