Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - welcome to the teenage wasteland

[Bupster]

Buckled (under instruction 😄)

When he is good he is very very good, etc etc 🙄

And when he's bad, he's a knobhead. 😄

Yes, walking past each other from a distance and gradually getting closer is a good idea. It's hard tbf because so many dogs do have issues with puppies. I'd recommend lots of high value treats and if he responds well to praise, praising him - both of which I am sure you know already! But I would suggest she also try and get her puppy to meet other older dogs before the puppy meets Bill - that way if it doesn't go 100%, it won't be the puppies first encounter with an older dog! Others on this thread probably have good ideas as well re. Bill/puppies.

I have to confess that other than Satan, puppy related issues hasn't been a huge problem (and with Satan less of a worry as she has no teeth and is smaller than them by about 8-10 weeks anyway). @Bupster

@brushingboots oh £7K isn't too bad for that price!

@brushingboots P sounds similar to Pupsy. She likes to do a quick 'meet and greet' and then moves on. The only dogs she has played with are the dogs she lives with.

Do you meet a lot of puppies, @Bupster ? I can only think of one I have met. And that is a lab, so was soon bigger than mine. Oh. Maybe he meets them at daycare?

Hi all - thanks so much for responding. I don't know what it is about living round here but we're flooded with puppies, perhaps because there's a dog park 100 metres away. A puppy called Kevin walked past the window first thing this morning, we see puppies in the dog park, on most of our walks - this is a very dog-friendly city. Avoiding other dogs is genuinely near-impossible for us. I don't know what people do round here if their dogs are properly reactive.

I think there's also probably an element of me being hyper-aware of puppies/young males and the need to get Bill on a lead so he doesn't completely lose his shit. He actually doesn't meet puppies much at daycare, though I did pick him up the other week and he was playing perfectly appropriately with a six month puppy through the baby gate in the office, the nobhead.

He loves to play and wrestle, and can play really beautifully with close friends, turn-taking and self-handicapping. But two of his closest friends left in the same week we were away, and I'm both sad for him and very aware that he's a sociable, outgoing dog whose life might become quite small if he can never be introduced to dogs younger than him because he overwhelms them (or they grow up into entire males and he's a nobhead to them). He does still have two friends here that are really well-matched and we're settling into a new routine with them, which is a relief.

His response to Kevin-the-puppy has always been very barky, but so is his response to the next door neighbours and the postie, all of whom he adores - it's hyper-arousal rather than fear or dislike I think. I'm going to get my head down this weekend and do some research into getting him to respond more calmly. And yes, Bill won't be the only older dog my friend's new puppy meets by any means (no choice round here!) - and hopefully I've got a month before any meetings have to happen at all.

@Bupster Kevin!? What a name for a dog 😁Tbh I am starting to think Bill delights in just driving you crackers - being nice one day and a dick the other 😁

I am sure as Bill gets older, and calms down a bit, he'll make more friends! Twatdog didn't have friends for ages and now he has a girlfriend (who is spayed, I hasten to add - no more puppies here) and a best friend. He also has two arch nemesis' - a pair of Frenchies who always bark at him and rush up towards his face snapping - but he just ignores them or, occasionally, tramples them.

@LandSharksAnonymous I think you're right 😄

To be honest, he has loads of friends, and a social life better than mine - he knows people and dogs I don't through daycare. I'm probably over-thinking this because of the loss of his two besties, and that he doesn't have that many other dogs he plays with in the same sort of way. But actually, reading this thread, it seems perhaps most dogs don't have loads of friends. I worry about this more than I would otherwise I think because there's just the two of us.

I also think he will calm with age @Bupster, although I have literally no prior experience to base this on 🤣

I’m another who has maybe only seen two puppies in this area the whole of this year so it is wild to me that there’s so many where you are!!! I’d probably avoid the dog park for now to be honest, and ‘set him up for success’ as they say. Obviously that doesn’t really help with any dogs that are passing your window or any that you meet on walks elsewhere.

Vinny is another who is a bit aloof with other dogs. He went through that phase of being terrified of any dog who as much as glanced in his direction, but he’s getting better. He’s still only ever played once briefly with a lovely polite Labrador we saw in the woods months ago, and a bit with nieces random puppy she bought on a whim when we were visiting but otherwise he doesn’t really like other dogs!

My dsis has just got another Jack Russell pup who is apparently even more bossy than her other one, so there’s no way Vinny will like her. He is scared stiff of the older one because he’s very intense despite being friendly. But it’s just his personality I think 😄 He is desperate to be even be acknowledged by my Mum’s greyhound but she just looks away from him the whole time they are together. Here she is hiding behind a cushion because he dared grace her presence.

My dd has cried many times because she says Vinny doesn’t have any friends and she feels so bad 😭

Mine have never had friends. Is it not anthropomorphising them to imagine that they need a social circle?
Even when we had two together, three together they were companions, pack mates, but I wouldn't say friends. Four of our eight have lived as an only dog and seemed quite happy because they had us and the cats as their pack/flock.

There is a dog on our close that Brie likes, a Beagle cross, but she's not really fussed about most other dogs. She'll occasionally go nose to nose with friendly ones but anything barky gets a wide berth.

@Bupster They take them other places. A lady in my village can’t walk her GSD around other dogs except her own lab because he is mega reactive, and so she drives him ten minutes down the road twice a day to a remote spot. She’s done that every day for about eight years.

Sometimes we go for days without seeing other dogs even from a distance and I don’t worry about pupsy’s life becoming smaller for it. When she goes to nursery she gets to play and when she sees her actual dog friends she gets to play. Last night we bumped into some friends by chance and they had a race around and it was excellent, but her walk still would have been great had she not seen them because she loves life whatever she’s asked to do. I make her life bigger by finding new walks and training locations for her and by teaching her new stuff or working on our to-do list – I don’t rely on other dogs to make her world a bigger place because that’s my job not theirs. Other nicely balanced dogs are just a bonus and frankly most other dogs are to be avoided.

Bill has an ace life with you – he’s spoilt to death and he adores you. He’s a very lucky boy already and you don’t need other strange dogs to make his life amazing. It’s already amazing! Having seen him it’s evident that it’s hyper-arousal, he’s definitely not scared – he just doesn’t know how to channel his energy and that’s OK because he’s pumped full of testosterone and he can’t cope. That’s not his fault, he’s just a teenage boy. If it was me and pupsy I think I’d be channelling that arousal into something more useful .

@CoubousAndTourmalet Interesting what you say about yours not being friends per se. It's another helpful reminder, when I occasionally dream of another puppy, that getting a second dog would be purely a selfish act on my part and may well have zero positives for pupsy.

@brushingboots I think a second dog, and whether it will work, massively depends on the two dogs. Some dogs, as good as they are with other dogs, would never live well with another dog.

I imagine that PMDs like @CoubousAndTourmalet has behave very differently to dogs they see regularly to how mine behave. Mine have definite dogs that, when they see them, they will fly the length of the park or across the field to get to - at this point, I often don't even recall as their friends will meet them halfway. They only do it with 2-3 dogs. And if they scent them on a walk, they'll try and tug me toward them. Ditto, I've accidentally found myself walking behind DMum on a walk before, and my lot have been itching to catchup to Satan. And the joy when they do finally get to their 'friends' or to Satan is honestly overwhelming - lots of happy barking and crying and snuffling. It's very sweet.

@Bupster I agree with BB, Bill is very lucky with you. I've only seen photos of him and I can tell how much he adores you. It honestly is written across his little face. He has his 'friends' that he can play with, but he has you - and you're far more important. Tbh you probably are just unlucky with how often you meet puppies. I can go weeks without seeing a puppy. Some days I don't even see other dogs on a walk and I live in quite a large town.

@YorkshireFelix is that a pizza decoration on his collar? My eyesight is terrible...so I might be mistaking it! Also, V is looking very handsome in that photo although, perhaps, a bit mournful? Like he's just been rejected.

@LandSharksAnonymous ha yes it is! We own a pizzeria so he just had to have the tag. Here’s a better view of it (patiently sat outside the restaurant waiting to see his father 😄).

I feel the same way @brushingboots
There are moments that I'm desperate for a second dog but also times when I wonder if I would be ruining her life and I worry that I'm being selfish. Brie is quite an introvert, she loves being around me. I suppose I'm her world. And I do feel that @Bupster is Bill's world. I do wonder if he would calm down if he was pulled back from his friends for a while. Sometimes we just need a break from social life. But then @LandSharksAnonymous is suggesting some dogs do need a social circle...🤔

Is there an element of our own needs? Do sociable people have more sociable dogs? Or is sociability determined by breed/type?

PMD are very aloof as adults. They recognise familiar dogs and definitely have preferences, but because they're very low energy and calm, all they really want is a quick hello and to go on their way. We are well suited in that respect. I'm not judging any of your dogs by PMD standards, but I've never really experienced a dog having a social circle outside of our own small pack of 3.

Vinny is turning into a very handsome dog as he is maturing @YorkshireFelix

@YorkshireFelix Oh I'm glad I was right! I was worried I'd insulted you/Vinny somehow by asking incase it turned out to be something completely different. He is growing up to be very handsome😍Everytime I see the Spaniels on this thread I do think "ohh aren't they lovely, and so small but still big" and then I think of Satan and get a cold chill and think "God no."

@CoubousAndTourmalet I think Goldies are typically just very friendly dogs and, much of that is probably down to the fact that Goldies do really stay bouncy and excitable and like puppies right through to old age - most other larger breeds do tend to calm down (thinking about your PMDs, or GSDs or even Bernese). Everything and everyone excites a Goldie, or at least the ones I know, so when they see dogs they know it's just chaotic energy everywhere.
As I said, they're always sooo excited to see Satan, even Hen and she's quite old now. Satan is pleased to see them, but it's more a 'oh it's you again, that's nice, let's share this sniff,' type thing whereas when they see her it's 'ohh its you its you its you, let me tell you all about my day. See this sniff? This is our sniff. Let's sniff it together. Noooo you have to put your head right into the sniff, like this. Oh! Look a duck! Let's chase the duck. Come on! Oh look a sniff!'

It's an interesting thought that social people are attracted to social dogs though. I am decidedly not social, other than about my dogs. But I do think particular types of people are probably drawn to particular breeds. Although I am admittedly very chatty and social, I am mostly chatty about my dogs 😄I can go entire days at work without talking to anyone unless I absolutely have to...

My first pairing were littermates (Yes I know @LandSharksAnonymous , but I didn't know then). They tolerated each other.
My second pairing were a year apart in age. Unfortunately health issues made that a very love / hate relationship.
My third pairing has worked out really well. P doesn't play with strange dogs, so it's lovely that she has K to play with.

Then two became three. N plays and cuddles up with K. But her and P just muddle along together.

@LandSharksAnonymous I used to take one of my cockers to meet up with a friend and her sprocker. They were always so excited to see each other and had enthusiastic greetings in the car park. Then they'd ignore each other for the entire walk. 😂

@LandSharksAnonymous not all spaniels...!

You're all very lovely. Bill is a very exuberant, sociable dog - he has been since puppyhood. He is as delighted to see all the people he knows as he is to see the dogs (as @brushingboots can testify). That's one of the reasons I do try to make sure he gets to see friends; the absolute joy he gets from being with them is so palpable, you can almost bottle it. He has one friend who's a round little beagle and they take such delight in each other, muzzle licking and sharing water from the same bottle at the same time, two noses shoved in together, then wrestling and teasing each other and chasing each other round the field. It really fills the heart to watch them. I want that joy for him, and that's why I've been so worried about the loss of his two besties in the context of his struggles with strange dogs.

The other things that feed into it are about me I suppose. Firstly that I've nothing to compare Bill to as we never had a dog growing up and Bill's my first. I moved up to this city four years ago on my own and all my friends and family live more than an hour away, and Bill struggles with the car, so any visions of taking him off to see people have had to be parked; and when he was tiny, getting him out to the little dog park we can see from our window was a lifeline. I've made dog park/dog walking friends that have become real friends; and it's plugged me into the neighbourhood and local community. We are still doing 1-1 training - our next session is Saturday - and I've been taking him up to the allotment at lunchtimes and plan to take him further afield next week, so we will start expanding our horizons, but I still value what we have locally, and don't want to lose it, I suppose.

Having said all this, we popped up to the park this evening on the way to our usual quiet evening mooch around the cemetery as I spotted some of his favourite dogs were there, and he coped for nearly an hour in the end with a five month old chihuahua. Bill was on a lead, obviously, and I kept our distance from the puppy as it was tiny, but apart from some fixation, Bill did incredibly well - a couple of lunges to get closer but no roaring or barking, and he spent an awful lot of the time ignoring its existence (not least as he found a whole football in the hedge and managed to haul it out with his teeth) - which is a tiny, bite-sized (chihuahua-sized?) bit of hope 🙂

Thank you @CoubousAndTourmalet @LandSharksAnonymous, I am biased but I always tell him how handsome he is! I have always preferred brown spaniels but V was chosen for us by the universe and his black shiny coat has grown on me now. He always gets compliments about what good condition he is in. You can have him if you want @LandSharksAnonymous, he’s probably only a little bit less evil than your Satan 😄

@LandSharksAnonymous is already having Brie @YorkshireFelix and I know she wants Bill too so she can nuzzle his velvety squishiness.

Maybe when the puppies go off to their new homes she could take on all our dogs together while we all have a nice peaceful holiday 😁

(Except I forgot, I'm supposed to be having Twatdog in exchange for Brie, aren't I?🤔)

@YorkshireFelix That's funny. I phoned P's breeder to enquire about a liver boy and ended up with a black bitch.

Had a nightmare walk this evening. Firstly, K disappeared into the bushes and came back with a whole rabbit's leg. She carried that with her for a while, snacking on the go. Then they found a (huge) baby seagull at the top of the beach. We won't mention what happened to that. 🙈 Let's just say, K was put on lead and dragged away, whilst P carried it on our walk for a while.
At this point I decided to give up and go home. K then disappeared into the reeds along the estuary to find the ducks. Her absolute favourite thing to do. (Remind me never to get a Toller.) Whilst hanging around waiting for her to reappear, P flushed a duck across the lagoon. She swam across after it and then took off up the beach.
K came back, so went on lead. P popped up across the other side of the estuary, looking lost. A couple of whistles brought her back down the beach and she swam back across to us.
Headed back to the car with both dogs on lead. K was lagging behind and had to be practically dragged along. Then she sat down and refused to move. I stopped and she climbed up my leg, asking to be picked up. So I had to carry a freezing cold, shivering wuss of a dog back to the car.
It was a very fun packed 30 minutes! Really wish we'd stayed at home.

What’s this about a dog swap I hear? I will take any of your dogs for a while if you’d let me 😂 Pablo would absolutely love it!

It’s interesting talking about getting a second dog and if it’s for you or for them, I know it would be for me. But I also think Pablo would love it. Sometimes I wish he was more wary of them? Maybe that will come with age but he got bitten on the snout by a WCS the other day (nothing serious, it was a warning) and although he yelped, he’d have gone back for round 2 if I’d let him! It’s like he’s saying “please let me be friends with you!”

On the subject of how social they are vs their owners, I am a typical introvert so it’s weird I ended up with a dog that wants to say hello to everyone 😂 having said that, I think I need human interaction more than I like to admit and I’ve had some lovely conversations with absolute strangers since I had him. Likewise, I will pull him on if the vibe isn’t right. So maybe we balance each other out?

@YorkshireFelix so tell me about this pizza…

@VanGoSunflowers I shall link you! I don’t post anywhere else on here so my identity really isn’t a secret 😄 If you’re ever in West Yorkshire…

https://www.instagram.com/ilpiratapizzata

I remember when we first got Vinny and I had him out and about in his little sling before he could go on walks and we got stopped constantly! I said to DH I didn’t really consider the fact everyone would want to talk to me. I hated it 😂