Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - welcome to the teenage wasteland

1000 replies

Bupster · 02/07/2025 20:32

Buckled (under instruction 😄)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
88
Nella68 · 30/07/2025 12:55

@SpanielsGalore it’s very interesting reading about trainers and your experience with puppy classes. The fab trainer we used also ran puppy classes. The dogs did not get to play with each other until lesson 6 (of 8) and that was after he had matched them with size and even then he juggled the puppy combinations so their play styles were matched. I learnt so much from him about play styles and body language. If the puppies got a bit rambunctious he would tell the owners to sit on the ground and it was amazing how it brought the energy levels of the dogs down.
He has a very calm dog that he uses for nervous and reactive dogs. His dog was an ex street dog so excellent at reading other dog’s body language and apparently gives off calming signal.

CoubousAndTourmalet · 30/07/2025 13:01

It's not SF @SpanielsGalore . I SHould of course be a bit careful what I say Here😉

Brie does the creeping on her belly and rolling over for older dogs, but backs away from big ones. As I've already said, most of her issues are trucks, tractors, rattly things, but nothing bothers her at home, even the bin lorry passing the garden gate doesn't faze her. It's only on the pavement walks that she gets nervy. Home fine, field fine, just hates walking on the roadside and, to be fair, I feel the same. We're working on it. Secure harness, reassurance, treats. But I still feel a large assertive companion dog would give her confidence rather than it being the other way around.

My cousin did mention getting a vet referral to a behaviourist last week, but I'd already booked the Monday session. Family will visit again in September so we'll see how Brie is then and discuss it further.

Meant to add before that it wasn't about lack of experience with this trainer; with a very young vet and a vet student in the family I'm all in favour of learning on the job. It was far more the coldness and disinterest towards Brie, and indeed Brie's own attitude to it, that I found offputting.

I confess I've never seen any of the tv dog trainers - we have no tv licence so our tv is set up as DVD play only. I suppose I could look for them on YouTube though.

LandSharksAnonymous · 30/07/2025 13:01

@CoubousAndTourmalet oh god yes. I cannot wait to move back upstairs to my bedroom and get the skip ready (mattress, blankets, towels etc are all going in a skip to be taken away)! And being able to go out just to do simple things like the food shop, or get a coffee etc without having to get a responsible adult over to puppy-watch.

@brushingboots oh he really is! Tbh one of the things I love most is how wild the deer there are. I sometimes go to Knole Park and the deer there are so tame it just feels a bit wrong, if you know what I mean? Holkham is where Twatdog did a runner once. And it's where Pen chased her first Pheasant (before they changed the grounds outside the park to dogs on leads as well), so good memories.

@YorkshireFelix it really is lovely, and I know the dogs are going to the best homes with people who love them. I'd say about half of the people who buy from me are friends or families (often children) of people who have bought from me before which is also just lovely 😊Interestingly, I have two families this time who used to own Cocker Spaniels so I'm quite keen to see how that goes. Clearly lots of people have agree with our (+ @SpanielsGalore) theory that Golden's are just bigger Cockers!

Bupster · 30/07/2025 14:22

I had a wonderful trainer for our puppy classes - she insisted on the puppies not meeting each other at all, or at least for no more than three seconds at a time. Of course this rather went out the window when it turned out later that one of the dogs was going to the same daycare as Bill, and in fairness he also made strenuous efforts at the time to climb every barrier to get to the other dogs.

These days our issues are mainly around his over-arousal: I think it's social competitiveness with other entire males, rather than a fear response, but I don't know for certain; and he is a bully with puppies (and has been since he was one). I spoke to the vet yesterday and got a referral to the University where I work myself, which has a really good dog behaviour clinic - frighteningly expensive, but my insurance should cover it. The vet agreed that we'd be better off trying to deal with it now than waiting in the hope that the end of adolescence would resolve things, when that means at least three more months of him practicing these behaviours.

When I look for trainers, the first thing I check is that they have qualifications and memberships of professional organisations, and then what those are. E.g. IMDT, Pet Professional Guild. I'm also keen on personal recommendations. But actually, a lot of what you need to know is between the lines - e.g. I came across someone recently who had been an academic but had set themselves up as a dog trainer with only a handful of courses she'd taken online from a trainer who's known to use aversives.

I won't touch anything aversive with Bill, even when he's driving me completely round the bend, so I don't want to work with someone who thinks (or might think) they're reasonable tools. There are some which are on the border I think - slip leads are common in gundog work as a dog going into cover could get a collar or harness caught; and even DTAS have one head collar (Dogmantics) which they list as recommended. I don't want to use either. I'm not sending Bill into heavy cover to hunt anything, and I'd rather he had a collar and ID if he ran off anyway. And his pulling on the lead is down to over-excitement and I can manage him even if it's sometimes unpleasant (different with Brie given her size).

I don't agree on everything with our current 1-1 trainer, but we are probably 80% aligned, and that's fine. We both like using food but she would probably suggest I use toys more. She doesn't use aversives, she makes a fuss of Bill when he bounds over to her, and she has enormous patience and understanding of his nobheadery. She's not (yet) a specialist gundog trainer, but there's nobody like that within reach for me that I'd trust, given he struggles with over-arousal in the car as well. I'm only really adding in a behaviourist as what we're doing with her is giving me skills to help him use his brain and instincts, whereas what I need from a behaviourist is how to change his emotional response and dial down his levels of arousal, and those aren't quite the same.

@CoubousAndTourmalet do you know anyone else who has the same breed as Brie who might be able to recommend someone? Most of them do online sessions these days too.

OP posts:
VanGoSunflowers · 30/07/2025 14:47

@brushingboots thanks for those links, looking forward to having a read later! I’ve pre-ordered your book - it’s a fascinating topic! Looking forward to reading it 😊

@LandSharksAnonymous here is a pic of the little sweetheart

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - welcome to the teenage wasteland
brushingboots · 30/07/2025 16:09

@VanGoSunflowers Thank you!!! That is so kind and I really hope you enjoy it! Truly, every single pre-order means a massive amount to me xx

CoubousAndTourmalet · 30/07/2025 16:42

Referral to the University Dog Behaviour Clinic sounds like a good step for you @Bupster Bill does seem to be rather a complex character.

We got a Dogmatic headcollar for Algy, but, as I think I've said before, with a dog whose head is level with your hip or waist, there is really almost no stress on the dogs neck with a properly fitting Dogmatic. He didn't wear it often, mainly for late night pavement walks during winter, but he never objected and it was always used with a collar and double ended lead. The rest of the time he was on a half check, which apparently some do consider aversive... But there's not much choice for dogs this size.

We don't know of any other PMD in this area. I mean I suppose I could ask one of the breeders for training recommendations, but at the moment I don't envisage following anything up.

LandSharksAnonymous · 30/07/2025 17:12

@Bupster I always forget how old Bill is now. 14 months? 18 months? He's still quite young, I'm sure!? I hadn't realised you were going to talk to a behaviourist/trainer about his issues/already had engaged someone! I think you mentioned it before but I probably didn't realise you meant 'right now' type thing.

On the over-arousal thing, it could possibly temper with age but you/the vet are right to want to see if it can be resolved before then. I faced similar(ish) type issues with his Royal Twatness - he'd get so excited and stimulated that he would just cause chaos and upset everyone. He's grown up a lot now, but he's approaching 3, so he really should have done!

I have to admit, his twattyness (you can tell by the various insulting names he's in the doghouse tonight) has put me off ever having another boy (as much as I love him). Girl's are just easier.

CoubousAndTourmalet · 30/07/2025 17:20

Except this girl @LandSharksAnonymous She's not. She was a nightmare again today. I'm never having another girl. Boys only.

LandSharksAnonymous · 30/07/2025 17:24

@CoubousAndTourmalet the offer for a swap is still there if you want it! One twatdog in exchange for Brie. 😄

SpanielsGalore · 30/07/2025 17:31

@Nella68 Your puppy classes sound much better. I don't mind a bit of play at the end. But one lesson we spent at least 40 minutes wandering around saying 'hello' to each other, whilst he swanned around speaking to people individually about any problems they may have. We were both cold and bored.
He runs a puppy plus follow on group, but it was advertised as 'socialisation is at the heart' of the sessions so I didn't bother signing up for it. I'd rather pay extra for a 1-to-1 lesson and get something out of it.

YorkshireFelix · 30/07/2025 18:01

Someone from work posted this on teams today, from an old 1940s magazine they were looking at this weekend. I think we should put a bulk order in!

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - welcome to the teenage wasteland
SpanielsGalore · 30/07/2025 18:09

YorkshireFelix · 30/07/2025 18:01

Someone from work posted this on teams today, from an old 1940s magazine they were looking at this weekend. I think we should put a bulk order in!

😂😂😂😂 Wonder if they'll work for humans too.

brushingboots · 30/07/2025 19:04

Just had my Petplan renewal quote – going up £6 from September! Feels a bit outrageous but equally I don't think there's a better deal to be had for the level of cover/customer service etc. Ugh.

CoubousAndTourmalet · 30/07/2025 19:07

brushingboots · 30/07/2025 19:04

Just had my Petplan renewal quote – going up £6 from September! Feels a bit outrageous but equally I don't think there's a better deal to be had for the level of cover/customer service etc. Ugh.

You mean £6 a month? Mine went up by £11 a month.

SpanielsGalore · 30/07/2025 19:08

@brushingboots I don't think that's too bad. P's started at £17 a month and by year 4 it's gone up to £30 a month.

CoubousAndTourmalet · 30/07/2025 19:11

Ours was £54 for the first year but is now £65. No claims made.

brushingboots · 30/07/2025 19:14

@CoubousAndTourmalet yeah, £6 a month. Gosh that's loads more – I wonder if the percentage increase is the same? It's almost 19% for me.

@SpanielsGalore this is year three and it's now £38. It was £26.50 when we first got her in July 2023. Feels a bit much but in all likelihood I'm just going to accept it.

YorkshireFelix · 30/07/2025 19:16

I’m with Agria and think it’s about the same price as Pet Plan but up to £20k cover rather than 12k which was the highest I could find. The problem is the whole pre-existing illness thing so it’s really difficult to shop around isn’t it!

SpanielsGalore · 30/07/2025 20:29

brushingboots · 30/07/2025 19:14

@CoubousAndTourmalet yeah, £6 a month. Gosh that's loads more – I wonder if the percentage increase is the same? It's almost 19% for me.

@SpanielsGalore this is year three and it's now £38. It was £26.50 when we first got her in July 2023. Feels a bit much but in all likelihood I'm just going to accept it.

I only went for £7k cover as I (incorrectly) thought it would be enough. And I'm Scotland which is cheaper. I can't complain though as I've claimed around £11k for her over the years.
I was only wondering today what my limit would be for the premiums. I was thinking over £50 a month. But then if P needs her other leg operating on, that's £5k to find.

Bupster · 30/07/2025 20:41

LandSharksAnonymous · 30/07/2025 17:12

@Bupster I always forget how old Bill is now. 14 months? 18 months? He's still quite young, I'm sure!? I hadn't realised you were going to talk to a behaviourist/trainer about his issues/already had engaged someone! I think you mentioned it before but I probably didn't realise you meant 'right now' type thing.

On the over-arousal thing, it could possibly temper with age but you/the vet are right to want to see if it can be resolved before then. I faced similar(ish) type issues with his Royal Twatness - he'd get so excited and stimulated that he would just cause chaos and upset everyone. He's grown up a lot now, but he's approaching 3, so he really should have done!

I have to admit, his twattyness (you can tell by the various insulting names he's in the doghouse tonight) has put me off ever having another boy (as much as I love him). Girl's are just easier.

Edited

He's 15 months, so still in the middle of his twatness - he is very young and might well settle down with age, but I worry that every time he loses his shit, he digs a deeper groove of shit-losing, if you see what I mean. And I have no idea how to help him with his nobheadery around puppies.

Ironically, today has been a glorious day. We had a super-long walk this morning (round the golf course for those who know - he jumped into every drain, pond, stream and canal he could find) and a trip to the allotment at lunchtime, and in the evening I found him some friends to play with at the park, and he only sort of kicked off once and only then because a dog he once scared growled at him. And he went back to him all wiggly because the nobhead never realises that he's caused chaos. Anyway. Other than that, he was perfectly neutral or friendly to everyone, watched strange dogs at a distance - including entire ones - and then walked away quite happily. I have moments like today when I think I've got this, but actually, it's the only day that's been this good since we got back from holiday - his bucket has been overflowing till today. So if the referral can help, and the insurance will cover it, it's worth it. Pray for my premiums 🙄

Pictured - his nobness was snoozling but woke up and caught me taking a photo. In the background, the multitude of random stuff he appropriates and that become his, including a packet of tissues, a hose nozzle, a plant mister, and the clothes brush.

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - welcome to the teenage wasteland
OP posts:
LandSharksAnonymous · 31/07/2025 07:10

@brushingboots how much is that cover for? Petplan are so expensive but I’ve never had any issues with them paying out, so I think it’s worth it!

@Bupster - ah yes, the prim age of wank! Definitely the right decision even if hopefully he will grow out of it. Bless him for not remembering what he’s done previously! For animals that are so smart they are also pretty thick! To be fair to Bill, I’ve found with mine it can take a week+ after we come back home (even if we’ve been together) from holidays before they calm down and return to usual! It’s very discombobulating being a dog of little brain 😁

CoubousAndTourmalet · 31/07/2025 09:25

We're only covered for £7,000 but I had expected it to go up more than it did. With giant breeds everything is super expensive. We're a low income household, but we make sacrifices in other ways - no holidays or meals out, one car. Dogs take priority.

Monday was just a blip in Brie's world, and we're back to lead ragging and ignoring "high value" treats. Suffice to say stinky goat treats, turkey delights and MW fishies got flung up in the air on the meadow for passing dogs to do "find it" 🙄

Bupster · 31/07/2025 09:52

LandSharksAnonymous · 31/07/2025 07:10

@brushingboots how much is that cover for? Petplan are so expensive but I’ve never had any issues with them paying out, so I think it’s worth it!

@Bupster - ah yes, the prim age of wank! Definitely the right decision even if hopefully he will grow out of it. Bless him for not remembering what he’s done previously! For animals that are so smart they are also pretty thick! To be fair to Bill, I’ve found with mine it can take a week+ after we come back home (even if we’ve been together) from holidays before they calm down and return to usual! It’s very discombobulating being a dog of little brain 😁

@LandSharksAnonymous yep, I definitely think it's the break that's made him particularly crazy - and then he had to go back to daycare on Monday as I had meetings all day, so half his brain was all 'yay! friends' (they said he was really affectionate all day) and the other half must have been unsure when I was coming back - he went mental when I collected him. All stress filling the bucket, and with him it starts half full anyway in terms of arousal.

This morning's outing was a mix of him being a sweet, engaged little darling, and an over-aroused nobhead barking at random people and a statue he's seen about four times a week for the last year. When he is good he is very very good, etc etc 🙄

I won't get an appointment with the behaviourist people for at least six weeks, so I'm going to have to try to find other ways to work out how to help him lower his arousal around puppies. It's really tricky, as it's difficult to get access to puppies that he might bark at, for very good reason. But my friend has just got a new puppy to foster and she wants Bill to be acquainted with her, so we're planning parallel walks and very gentle introductions eventually, if I can help him respond well... any advice, @LandSharksAnonymous ?

OP posts:
brushingboots · 31/07/2025 10:31

@LandSharksAnonymous Up to £7k. I think it’s worth it too given how brilliant they were when I claimed earlier this year, but I just bristled a bit at what feels like quite a big increase.

@Bupster Glad you had such a good walk on the drains etc! I really love going down there – if we lived nearer I'd do it all the time. There are usually some nice herons to spot too.

My question re puppies would be – apart from his bestie's mum's new pup, does he need to keep meeting puppies? We almost never meet any puppies and there are absolutely loads of dogs round here. I know we run our dogs quite differently but I think if pupsy was a bit of a bully with one particular type of dog I'm not sure I'd be pushing them on her, especially if she was a bit hormonal. Apart from our actual dog friends, most of our dog interactions (as you've probably seen in real life) are quite brief because she's usually more interested in the environment than other dogs. I'm always surprised if she takes a particular interest in a strange dog as she's quite politely aloof with dogs that aren't already her friends.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.