15 year old has been suspended. Where do we go from here? Terrible behaviour

[Upset03829]

My son hates school. I cant express how much he hates it. But he also doesnt want to be homeschooling. He doesnt want to do any kind of academic learning.

We have had problems with behavior since he was 4 years old. Hes 15 now about to go into year 11. Its been a long hard slog.
He is desperate for validation, for people to like him , to be popular etc. At all costs. He has always been the class clown. Not making excuses for him but his teachers have always liked him despite this because he has a great personality. A cheeky chap.
That was until 2 years ago. I dont know if its hormones or what but he has changed beyond all recognition. That cheeky chap has gone. And has been replaced with someone full of anger, aggression and ideas that no rules apply to him.
School has been getting worse and worse. Not helped as its 80% boys, ive been told by his head of year that his year is a particularly bad year. There are 10 boys who are all similar, including my son. They bounce and feed off each other, egg each other on etc
Its at the point now where son is not learning anything, is spending large amounts of time outside of the classroom, and has become rude and argumentative with the staff.
Hes also started to become physical with other students
He has been suspended for persistent disruption and behaviour. Its been coming and im not surprised.
Thing is we just dont know what to do, neither do staff. We have put so many things in place to help him, even monetary rewards. He gets special treatment from them and still behaves this way.
I have to attend a reintegration meeting on Monday. All I see for year 11 is more of the same . I am empty, drained, have nothing left in me. Nothing works with him
Its devastating to watch and so sad because outside of school he is ok and when he leaves I think he will be ok. How do we cope with this?

Sorry that you’re going through this. Here’s my read, and apologies if this doesn’t add anything to what you already know:

it sounds like avoidant behaviour. He struggles in school, and it makes him feel shit, so he acts up so he can avoid the pressure of feeling like he’s not doing well; and redirects embarrassment or shame he might feel from not being academically on par with his classmates by distracting and disrupting. He keeps the kudos of class clown, and reinforces his security and position through aggression, because he’s mot confident in himself when he’s not performing this role. Doing this has been a successful strategy because it means that he no longer needs to engage in that environment.

so, you need to build his confidence so that he doesn’t feel like he needs to perform like this. It’s no way to get through life and he’ll struggle in relationships and work unless he figures himself out.

As others have suggested - 1:1 tuition with therapy so he can address his anxiety and confidence issues. Lean in to his other skills. If he can’t get his qualifications now, send him to do work/training such as life guarding that allows him to build that confidence, and then encourage him back to school to finish up down the line. It sounds like he needs a time out. Others suggestion of the military is also not a bad one, especially if he’s physically fit!

I come across this a lot as a teacher. Parents saying they are absolutely fine at home but then when you unpick that it means they can do what they want unchecked.

My dd is like this. Disengaging at A level. I got her through with tuition on 2 subjects and I crammed it with her for the 3rd. Results pending.

There’s something called Dual Exceptionality, which some ND people have. This is where someone is bright, but they can’t access the education and therefore don’t perform well.

This post is excellent advice and all the things you should be asking for. I would push on a college move or alternative provision placement with part time school attendance.

He has not had multiple assessments. He’s been rejected by CAMHS to be put forward for assessment. A couple of people have said about right to choose through the GP, that’s a good idea.

Is he aware he will have to move schools ? That is normally a very scary prospect ? Is there a school for children with behaviour difficulties near you ( we have one where those suspended /struggling go ?

There's no possibility that he's taking anabolic steroids?

I have already made a lengthy post upthread about ADHD and managed moves and why it most likely won’t work for a kid who has potential ADHD. Just sending him to a different school isn’t going to magically eradicate the ADHD symptoms from his brain. My DS school tried that shit with my son with an off site direction with a to a permanent managed move and his placement was terminated as the same ADHD behaviours continued into the new school. You can’t punish the SEN out of a kid by sending to another school. They will still present with the same behaviours there and the school will have the same repeated “disciplinary” policies there of detentions and isolations… just it will be in a different setting.

These type of “managed moves” might be effective for neurotypical kids as a ‘shock tactic’ but will only cause more stress and turmoil for a kid with ADHD.

I'd also like to answer that drugging kids is not the answer to Adhd either.

For some, it is the answer. Would you say the same about an asthmatic kid using an inhaler?

Hmmm strange that because my DS was showing the exact same behaviour at school, almost identical and he was diagnosed with ADHD. Everything the op describes is my so down to a tee.
And no you “can’t just pay people for a diagnosis”, a private assessment is also conducted the exact same way that a CAMHS assessment would be, just that you will be cutting out the 3 year wait that you have to endure on the NHS as the assessment will be pretty much done within weeks instead of years and they will also not diagnose a child with ADHD if they do not have ADHD. They will write up an honest and factual report based on their findings! You can’t simply just pay for a diagnosis! Ffs. A good private provider who is NICE compliant will conduct an assessment in the exact same way as it would be done on the NHS. They cannot diagnose someone with something if they don’t have it so please stop saying people are telling the op to pay for a diagnosis!

Oh and not all kids with ADHD present the same in all settings, some will mask in certain settings and some will struggle to cope in a school environment with such high expectations of behaviour that they simply cannot live up to. My DS is far better behaved at home because I know his triggers and choose my battles well and don’t keep putting him in isolation and punishing him or doing a ‘managed move’ to another home due to his ADHD symptoms. Works wonders!

Can he read and write?

It sounds like he's missing a key skill but has been able to bluff his way through until now. Now the holes are showing. He's likely embarassed which is why he's using avoidance. Easier not to do it than to say he can't do it.

How is his reading? Could be be struggling with this and trying to hide it?

What is at at root of it? I was a nightmare teen and know now I was very unhappy. Has he got a counsellor? Any SEND?

Op my son was exactly the same. It was like trying to get blood out of a stone because all he would do was dismiss me and tell me he didn’t care and claim that it’s his teachers were the problem rather than him. In reality his teachers were part of the problem as they didn’t understand that constantly shouting at him, giving him detentions every day was damaging to his mental health and telling him off all the time actually triggered him and caused his behaviour to escalate.

What I found easier to do was wait a good few hours after the incident to have a chat to him. Because if he had done something wrong at school and was sent home/ suspended his brain was still in some sort of fight or flight mode and there was just no reasoning with him. It is impossible to reason with a SEN kid whilst they are still triggered as they do not hear it or take in what you have said. Please also bear in mind that a lot of ADHD kids get bored with conversations easily and appear to switch off if being bombarded by questions so constantly talking at him did not work either. I had to do it calmly and in bits at a time many hours after the incident when he felt in a calm mood and had come back down to earth. It took me months to build up a full picture of what was going on in his head at school for me to then relay all this back to school but by bit over the months.

The answers you need to find out is if he’s struggling to focus in lessons, does he zone out during lessons, does he get bored of lessons easily, does he feel as if he cannot sit still for long periods etc.
I finally paid to go private based on the information I did manage to get out of him.

Oh and the way I read the op’s post was that he had been referred for multiple assessments and the referrals had been rejected so he was never actually assessed.

I think it would be impossible to have multiple assessments as there is an average wait of 2-3 years for an assessment…. Are you seriously telling me that op’s DS has been churned through the same system multiple times years apart…. I don’t think the system quite works like that.

How will they know all this without actually assessing him. Because I thought an assessment was to establish whether it was in fact ADHD or MH/ anxiety related issues. I thought the whole point of an assessment was to go back through their entire life history from birth until present to establish if these are new symptoms or whether they have been present since birth/ early childhood. Honestly op, if you can afford a private assessment then I highly recommend it. They won’t reject him for an assessment based on some criteria that they can’t possibly know until after an assessment has been done.

In the PRU, they have small groups and high levels of support. We try and meet young people where they are, focus on building a relationship of trust and boosting their self worth. It can be a game changer for some kids.

This is exactly what ALL children need. It is not surprising that children respond positively to this. What they respond negatively to is being herded together in large numbers, fed a rigid curriculum, tested ad nauseam ....

For many children school sucks the self worth out of them.

And as for the poster suggesting this is "avoidant behaviour" as if this is some sort of diagnosis .... who wouldn't avoid a situation that makes you feel worthless?

You say dad is in the picture - in what way? Does he live with your son? Are you together? What is the relationship between the dad and the son like?

Punishment only works on surface level behaviour....it's doesn't address root cause

What do you do when punishment by removal of tech doesn't work at all? Take their clothes and shoes? I'm amazed at how many people think taking things away makes any difference in situations like this.

Totally agree.

I agree. It doesn’t work at all. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. And this is the issue that we are seeing in secondary schools. “Let’s give them detention or isolation or suspend them and if they still carry it on let’s send them to another school for a managed move, that’ll teach em”. While ignoring the signs the kid is clearly struggling to cope.

I don’t agree with punishing at home if they have already received a punishment at school for what are probably underlying SEN needs. It doesn’t solve anything and won’t make any difference.

Again, there is no fix for this other than dealing with the root cause.

I can see a lot in your responses about talking to him, dealing with him, telling him... but not a lot of curiosity about what is actually going on for him, underneath all of this bravado and lashing out. This is not what he truly wants for himself, he is showing you that he isn't coping with what is being asked of him, for whatever reason. In order to help him, if that is what you want, other than to magic his behaviour away which won't happen, you need to dig into this, with support if necessary.

When he says he doesn't care, he cares. He just can't do what everyone is asking him to do, school, home, so he feels like a massive failure and is self sabotaging.

We were referred to cahms through the gp. Had to wait a year to be seen each time. Would go into cahms and have a 3 hour meeting talking about everything from birth to now. That was then taken to a team to discuss, and they then told us they would not refer on to the adhd pathway for diagnosis as they believed it was anxiety based. Been through this multiple times.
They did offer counselling/ therapy through a mental health charity. He attended but couldnt listen or retain the information. I hate cahms and think they are a disgrace when you are crying out for help. School keep asking me , what's the situation with cahms, what are cahms doing, nothing!!

He became incredibly anxious during covid. Hes a social lad so the changes had a big impact on him and he became abit obsessed with germs. Now if he has a sore throat its throat cancer. Or a sore leg is a broken leg for example.

I have a meeting with school tomorrow and will be interested to see what other options they have left to try. . The school he attends is slightly differnt than a normal school, so this would make it impossible to do a managed move as they would not be studying the same exams.
Maybe a PRU is the only answer. I just want to get him and us through the next 12 months as unscathed as possible and for him to pass english and maths. That's all we want.
I did ask them if he could drop everything else but they said no.
I will suggest this again, that he just does english and Maths on a part time time table
Never shown any signs of dyselxia

They did offer counselling/ therapy through a mental health charity. He attended but couldnt listen or retain the information.

Did he attend all of the sessions that were offered?

When you say that his school is different to a "normal" school, in what way?