15 year old has been suspended. Where do we go from here? Terrible behaviour

[Upset03829]

My son hates school. I cant express how much he hates it. But he also doesnt want to be homeschooling. He doesnt want to do any kind of academic learning.

We have had problems with behavior since he was 4 years old. Hes 15 now about to go into year 11. Its been a long hard slog.
He is desperate for validation, for people to like him , to be popular etc. At all costs. He has always been the class clown. Not making excuses for him but his teachers have always liked him despite this because he has a great personality. A cheeky chap.
That was until 2 years ago. I dont know if its hormones or what but he has changed beyond all recognition. That cheeky chap has gone. And has been replaced with someone full of anger, aggression and ideas that no rules apply to him.
School has been getting worse and worse. Not helped as its 80% boys, ive been told by his head of year that his year is a particularly bad year. There are 10 boys who are all similar, including my son. They bounce and feed off each other, egg each other on etc
Its at the point now where son is not learning anything, is spending large amounts of time outside of the classroom, and has become rude and argumentative with the staff.
Hes also started to become physical with other students
He has been suspended for persistent disruption and behaviour. Its been coming and im not surprised.
Thing is we just dont know what to do, neither do staff. We have put so many things in place to help him, even monetary rewards. He gets special treatment from them and still behaves this way.
I have to attend a reintegration meeting on Monday. All I see for year 11 is more of the same . I am empty, drained, have nothing left in me. Nothing works with him
Its devastating to watch and so sad because outside of school he is ok and when he leaves I think he will be ok. How do we cope with this?

Can you afford therapy and tutoring. If it were me he’d be doing online school already.

The school should do a managed move. He won't like being apart from his friends and it might give him a short sharp shift. At my daughter's school they do managed move for a short time and they can come back, if their behaviour is still poor they will be moved permanently. One girl was moved and she hated the other school and has behaved much better now she's back.

Does he have a father in the home?

School just isn’t right for some children (not just neurodivergent).

Exactly. We sling children and young people together in this abnormal environment, subject them to rigid curricula and pointless testing and should not be surprised when some simply say "No thanks, not for me." And they do not have need of a medical diagnosis.

Accept the suspension and let him enjoy the respite from something that is not right for him day after day.

When he goes back than go with the flow, which will probably mean another suspension.

School and academic learning are simply not for some people. We need to accept this.

Good suggestions upthread as to options when he leaves. Can he read/write/ add up? It may be all he needs.

A close relative left school with no qualifications at all and went into caring. He is now running a unit for adults with learning disabilities.

Why did he get health anxiety during Covid? That’s not the norm either. Covid is also a long time ago now. Did someone he know die?!

I think you need to get him tested for dyslexia. Can he sit and read an adult level book to you?

She said he's already had multiple adhd assessments and he hasn't got it. If he had it, like the professionals said, he would be the same at home and other places. You can't just switch it off. My brother had adhd and there's no way he could switch it on and off. Sometimes parents want to have an answer but she's been told it's not so she needs to pursue other avenues. So he's not got adhd and she needs to find out what is really going on not people asking her to question the professionals and pay someone to give him a diagnosis for something he's been told he hasn't got. I'd also like to answer that drugging kids is not the answer to Adhd either.

Is there any way he can work somewhere? A friend’s daughter did jobs around the school. She answered the phone, took messages, ran errands. Effectively an informal apprenticeship within school.

So what are CAMHS suggesting to do about the anxiety? Honestly sometimes the way they operate sounds absolutely insane, it's enough to make you tear your hair out. I assume private is not an option at all? Does he need to be 18+ to go through adult Right To Choose (if you're in England)? Your GP might be able to tell you.

I think you're probably spot on that he does care - I can quite understand him not wanting to talk about it TBH. There is a good book called Lost at School, which might be helpful but I think it would probably need to be the school staff reading it.

It's good that school are understanding and willing to make accommodations. I suppose I am just thinking about my DS2 who is 7, so I appreciate much younger - but he had all the support at school and at home and he was just completely unable to access any of it until he started medication and since then it's been completely transformative. I actually felt like I was crazy in the first 3 months, I was ready to change his class, change his school, pull him out and try a special school, get someone in to do a sensory assessment within school etc. His teacher was also despairing, she said she'd never seen a child like him in 30 years (This was surprisingly not at all helpful).

Nope. None of that was the problem. He can now cope with the sensory input, the slightly dotty teacher, the unpredictability of the 23 other students, the cognitive and linguistic challenges of the school work. He still needs all the support, from his teacher and the support workers at school and from us at home. But he needed the right neurochemical support as well. I don't know what it would have taken to support him without that. I think genuinely, it would have had to have been specialist provision.

I'd def look to reduce or remove the gaming

This sounds so hard @Upset03829

I dont know your economic situation and
I'm sure youve prob already done this but have you actually said "right so what is your plan for your life? Whats your end game?"

When you close your eyes what does life look like in 15 years when you are 30?

You said he doesn’t like learning or doing anything academic, but then you say he’s ok in a small group or 121? So is it the classroom rather than learning? Why not homeschool and get a 121 tutor?

I dont understand why the assessment would be denied due to issues being anxiety based? Id go to GP and ask for another referral to CAMHS. Does he want things to change? Does he want to be able to regulate himself better or is he content to keep behaving as he is?

When is he at his best?

What has his home life been like growing up? How self-aware are you, his parents?

1.Have a look at some of these and talk to him about whether he would like to go. A change of environment may help a reset.
https://www.outwardbound.org.uk/come-to-outward-bound/summer-adventures/#filter
https://www.britishexploring.org/
Funding is available for both if that would be an issue.
2.Don't bother with CAMHS at this point - go to the GP and request a Right to Choose assessment for ADHD. Pick a provider carefully and find one where he can be seen sooner rather than later, even if you have to travel.
3.Has he had a chance to meet with a psychiatrist at CAMHS? If not, can you make it happen? He needs specialist input to get to the bottom of what is causing his anxiety. Speak to the GP.

You need to turn it around. No rewards just the opposite. Doesn't want to go to school or be home schooled no problem, during the day no gadgets at all. No tv radio nothing. No games no money and just give normal food no nice special snacks. So he literally has nothing to do anything all day.
if necessary you need to take annual leave to implement it. Give it a week and he will be demented. How do I know because I did it. It took two days and he was back at school

Has dyslexia been ruled out? @Upset03829

This. A managed move isnt going to help at this stage. He will just fail as unlikely all the exams will be the same. So he needs to behave or try something different. Have you explained that to him?

Its devastating to watch and so sad because outside of school he is ok
What do you mean by outside of school he is ok? A friend‘s son went completely off the rails, ended up in a PRU and she always said what a good boy he was at home, but she had zero expectations of him. He had no chores, no making him to do his homework, no sanctions for vaping / getting picked up by police / getting excluded from school. No responsibilities or accountabilities at all.
Does your son clean his room, sort his laundry, wash dishes, cook meals, take care of pets or do any garden work?

Something is going on with him OP even if he can't articulate it. It's not just bad behaviour - all behaviour is communication.

The class clown thing often develops in kids who are struggling with the work - rather than admit that they are finding it hard, they use mucking about in class and making people laugh as a distraction from the real problem.

I've worked in a PRU and seen many many angry teenage boys - the anger is always masking other emotions. Fear of failure, anxiety, social awkwardness, low self-esteem etc

It may be that a PRU is where he's going to end up if this continues. It can be the right environment for some kids who can't manage in mainstream. While it's primarily accessed by children with emotional and behavioural difficulties, we see a high number of young people with specific conditions - ASD, ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia primarily. These have often gone undiagnosed for many years sadly, and have affected their ability to learn in a mainstream setting. Which in turn leads young people to believe that they're stupid, useless, will never succeed at anything and that causes them to shut down.

In the PRU, they have small groups and high levels of support. We try and meet young people where they are, focus on building a relationship of trust and boosting their self worth. It can be a game changer for some kids.

Does the local authority offer any form of alternative provision that he can attend for at least some of the time? Something that interests him, maybe something more hands on than academic?

You can't just sign up another person for the army! They have to want to join and it's quite difficult to get in.

That is a risky strategy. He might get into county lines drug dealing for example. Bored, out of school teenagers are most at risk. The OP's son is not the type to hang around at home by the sound of it. Imo main thing is to keep him out of trouble.

And at 16, he’d need to attend Army Foundation College, which still involves some classroom work. So whilst enrolling into the Army isn’t a bad shout, OP’s son would still have to spend the first year or so navigating a similar environment to the one he currently finds so difficult.

He's not taking anything at the gym is he?

If not, can you get him involved in coaching younger children in his chosen sport? That sometimes helps to foster a sense of responsibility.
I think I would ask school about an early p/t transfer to the local college, if there is a course there that he .might be interested in, or ask about a referral to some other alternative education, such as a PRU.

I’m not sure on your area but have you tried MA college? Looks like a great approach but they’ll expect discipline. See if there’s one in your area and if he likes the look of it, it might give him something to work towards.
my son is only 7 but very similar - his dad, my DH and many teachers let him get away with things because he’s cute and a cheeky chappy, I’m a teacher so I’m well aware that one day, like your son, the cuteness will fade and the cheekiness will be seen as disrespect, which it really is. It’s a tough balance - hope you find something helpful.

I have a link to being in Secondary and this something that happens.

great kids, but the whole environment does not work for them, school is too big, too much going on and it stresses them out even before they’ve started. Generally there is a SEN element, but specialist placements are few and far between and the ones students often need is a spacious green area with a lot of outdoors, not thousands of kids crammed into corridors.

Schools can have really good teams and will try anything, they do want to see children succeed, thrive and pass as much as possible to become the best citizen they can.

Schools believe there is always a reason, just finding that reason can take time. Has there been any trauma or family breakdown?

Year9 often starts the boys hormone surges and the tempers start (if not already), there is jostling for the alpha male position and girls etc become noticeable.

I am sure the school have already done this, how is their Pastoral structure? Is there someone your DS likes to talk to to start to build bridges? Is there an opportunity for any 1:1 with a TA / LSA?

There are often colleges they can send some students to who just want to start vocational training, this could be a last resort but can be a fruitful one, just they usually are not as local as the school. When at this stage money bribes etc do not work as they have gone beyond caring.

As a parent it must be exhausting and a huge concern. I would probably try to show them different careers, produce a future, maybe farming, tractor driving and all that entails ie HGV / runway clearance opportunities. Animals, Sport coaching, plants, building, carpentry. Plumbing, brick laying, engineering or an outdoors role, RNLI, Mountain Rescue, working abroad, Camp USA. Something that excites them, it may not produce amazing gcse results but it may produce a future. Good luck.

Managed move to a different school? Our school doesn't externally suspend. Instead you have to go to a different secondary and sit in their isolation unit