15 year old has been suspended. Where do we go from here? Terrible behaviour

[Upset03829]

My son hates school. I cant express how much he hates it. But he also doesnt want to be homeschooling. He doesnt want to do any kind of academic learning.

We have had problems with behavior since he was 4 years old. Hes 15 now about to go into year 11. Its been a long hard slog.
He is desperate for validation, for people to like him , to be popular etc. At all costs. He has always been the class clown. Not making excuses for him but his teachers have always liked him despite this because he has a great personality. A cheeky chap.
That was until 2 years ago. I dont know if its hormones or what but he has changed beyond all recognition. That cheeky chap has gone. And has been replaced with someone full of anger, aggression and ideas that no rules apply to him.
School has been getting worse and worse. Not helped as its 80% boys, ive been told by his head of year that his year is a particularly bad year. There are 10 boys who are all similar, including my son. They bounce and feed off each other, egg each other on etc
Its at the point now where son is not learning anything, is spending large amounts of time outside of the classroom, and has become rude and argumentative with the staff.
Hes also started to become physical with other students
He has been suspended for persistent disruption and behaviour. Its been coming and im not surprised.
Thing is we just dont know what to do, neither do staff. We have put so many things in place to help him, even monetary rewards. He gets special treatment from them and still behaves this way.
I have to attend a reintegration meeting on Monday. All I see for year 11 is more of the same . I am empty, drained, have nothing left in me. Nothing works with him
Its devastating to watch and so sad because outside of school he is ok and when he leaves I think he will be ok. How do we cope with this?

@Upset03829

id take this route too.

what does he say when you ask him what he does want to do? It's all very well saying he hates school, he doesn't want to go to college, doesn't want to do an apprenticeship.. blah blah blah. So what does he want to do. Sitting around jn his parents gaming all day isn't an option.

why is he so angry about being suspended when he hates going ??

How much more 'having his back' did he expect from the school staff when he's throwing in their faces?

The Army won't want him. They're not a dumping ground for problem kids.

By brother in law is ex-army and has said a couple of times that my son should consider joining.

Not because my son was badly behaved at school (he has ADHD). But because the real life problem solving, hands on training, opportunity for qualifications, stepping up under pressure, would be ideal for him.

There are rules around use of ADHD medication you want to join but the army is a better fit than an office or retail job etc for many.

Why does he have health anxiety? That’s not a normal thing for a kid of this age. Most teens think they are immortal.
Has something happened in the family in the past?

I am also wondering if he’s dyslexic. Struggling with work and being the class clown is a common cover up. When was the last time he sat down and read something not too simple out to you? Or did a maths paper in front of you?

There are a couple of different routes still open, but he has to want to engage..
14-16 college - this is available by school referral and won't necessarily be something you could access by ringing the colleges. The difficulty with this is that there are often very limited places available (my county calls it 'fresh start' but there is only 30 year 11 places across the whole county)
Directed Off Site placement (or DOS) this can be to alternative provision, college etc but again has to be funded by the school.
Managed move - but I'm not sure that would work if he has a generalised 'hates school' as it's still school just a different place possibly away from the current year group.
As others have said, he's seems to be able to articulate what he doesn't want, but can he articulate what he does want to do? Is he doing GCSE's that will 'lead' to what he sees himself doing or is he giving up because he just doesn't want to do it?

Whatever happens, he will not be bothered if everyone is fussing over him. That is what he expects to happen. The discussion, the concern.
Don’t show you are concerned. He might suddenly become bothered.
He is so close to leaving now. He has the big wide world out there. And they will not fuss.

It sounds absolutely classic for ADHD, the way they will understand what they're supposed to do but five minutes later it's like they've forgotten, then often seem genuinely baffled that they're in trouble and think it's completely unfair, or wildly cast around for someone (or something!) to blame aside from themselves. Constantly seeking validation is very typical as well.

Anxiety often goes along with this. It would be worth seeking an assessment since the behavioural routes aren't helping, suggesting something is getting in his way. Just increasing the behavioural response is likely to harm more than it helps. Look for the reason behind the behaviour. Is it impulse control? Like the thought occurs to him and he's already done it before he can even stop to consider whether it's a good idea or not?

It can't be testosterone if he's been like this since he was 4. I can't understand being refused because he's not the same in multiple settings - You've had issues at home since he was 4 so that's two settings. School and home. Are you explaining a very toned down version or something? The behaviour doesn't have to be exactly the same in 2+ settings, it just has to be that the child presents symptoms in 2 settings.

Has he been assessed for dyslexia as well? As you mention a strong dislike of written work and sometimes the acting out, clowning around etc can be a way to try to deflect attention from that.

I would strongly recommend ADHD assessment properly because if he does have ADHD, medication could be a complete game changer and you can only try that if he has a diagnosis. There's only so much accommodation can do if the brain chemistry is working against them.

@Upset03829 ask him what he would like to happen if he had a magic wand. He doesn't want to go to school fine- what then? Work? He should run around asking for apprenticeships.

What is he like academically? Some boys do completely disengage if they don't perform well in school. From my experience of teaching this age group, a lot of girls plough on and scrape through with ok grades, but boys often opt out if they think they won't be successful. The more emotionally fragile ones are particularly susceptible to this. 1:1 mentoring/tutoring sometimes helps (if you can find and afford the right person). What are his GCSE predictions like? I have seen some children with 2/3s predicted across the board and I can see why they don't think there is a huge amount of point.

He'll have to learn the hard way then.

Let him get suspended, fail the year/get expelled and make him own his behaviour.

Don't give your opinion or tie yourself up in knots to give him easy ways out.

He has to find out for himself what happens if you piss about all day and get in with the wrong crowd. He has to want to study. In his case it'll probably be when he gets rejected from every college course going, because he has no GCSEs.

Hi. He sounds a lot like my nephew, who ended up in a PRU, which actually was brilliant for him.

Anyway, I def wouldn't punish him. The most important thing right now is to keep your relationship intact so you can continue to support him. Leave school stuff at school.

Concentrate on getting him to 16 without a criminal record. New opportunities open up at 16 - it's not ideal not to have the maths and English, but there are still options out there.

King's Trust, Shaw Trust for starters. My local rugby club offers schemes for NEETs ( not in education, employment or training) and my nephew did one of those and got a job at the end of it.

But equally he could learn to drive and get jobs in the driving industry. Or work in a pub and get onto a training scheme. Or start labouring.

Lots of people answering on this thread have no relevant experience and can't believe there is a life without a great school record and qualifications. But it's not true.

Re where he is atm, just try not to panic. Get him through the next 6 weeks then it's just another year to go. Good luck.

An alternative education? Usually from age 14 they can go to a college and do something more practical?

The issue with off site direction and managed moves is that they may work for neurotypical kids by giving them a fresh start if they have got in with the wrong crowd or whatever or simply just don’t get along with their current school but they won’t necessarily work for kids with ADHD.

My DC was displaying identical behaviour to that of the op’s DS and rather than try to look into the cause of the issues, his school just labelled him as a ‘naughty kid’, gave him multiple isolations, suspensions etc and none of them worked, in fact it only caused his behaviour to escalate. So they thought that fobbing him off to another school for off-site direction with a view to a permanent managed move would be a solution to all their problems so they could finally wash their hands of him. That didn’t work either (I knew it wouldn’t) so the new school terminated his placement there.

If the op’s DS does have ADHD or other SEN issues, an off site direction or a managed move is not going to magically eradicate the ADHD from him. All it will do is cause even more turmoil for him, throwing him into a completely new environment where he doesn’t know anyone, has no friends there etc. I cannot think of anything worse for any child let alone one who has been purposely moved away from their current setting due to being labelled “naughty” when they in fact have SEN needs. It’s not going to give them a new brain or a new personality transplant and the same behaviours will most likely repeated at a new school. No amount of punishment by isolation, suspension, detentions or off site direction is going to punish the ADHD out of him and this is what a lot of schools struggle to understand.

These aren’t neurotypical kids and a lot of kids with ADHD/ Autism cannot live up to the strict behaviour standards of secondary schools, no matter how much the school tries to discipline them. It is probably better for the op that she tries to go down the road of getting a private diagnosis if possible and making sure that if she does get a diagnosis for him that the school start putting in place some support. Constantly punishing a kid for having a different brain wiring is not going to help.

Several people (inc me) have asked about the health anxiety. Would be good to get your take on the origins of this @Upset03829

Can I ask where his dad is. You say I and not we.

X

@Flyingintotheunknown I'm not suggesting that these options work where there is neuro diversity or even for 'all' neurotypical children and young people. If it worked every time I wouldn't be dealing with a rising number of permanent exclusions every day.

It's simply the pathway many local authorities would follow where there is no EHCNA in progress or no EHCP, simply because that process takes so long.

Perhaps I'm assuming that the OP doesn't have funds for a private diagnosis.

My suggestions certainly aren't a definitive list, I simply work in Fair Access so know some of the options which may be available, OP has clearly said that her ds is approaching Year 11 and hasn't been able to secure assessment yet, so it's important to consider the 'what if' he isn't neuro diverse.

I agree with this. Loads of career routes still open (particularly to a sporty teen) that don't require any academic qualifications. Driving is a very good shout - a driving licence will open up endless opportunities for work.

Behaviour problems since he was for and the school treating him as though he had a sen diagnosis - He has undiagnosed something. He needs to see a psychologist and you need to really fight for him.

“It's simply the pathway many local authorities would follow where there is no EHCNA in progress or no EHCP, simply because that process takes so long.”

And this is the problem. The whole system needs a complete overhaul because the current system isn’t working. I get what you are saying and I know you are just trying to advise the op on what you feel may be the best direction for her DS.

But I don’t feel a managed move or off site direction is the answer because if he does have ADHD it isn’t going to change what’s going on in his brain. It is unfortunate that he is now approaching Y11 that even if op tried to get an assessment via right to choose, the waiting lists are usually still quite long, albeit not as long as the waiting list for CAMHS. So by the time he got an assessment he will have left school.

It seems to be a common problem across the board with mainstream secondary schools where staff seem to just jump to punishments far too easily. When these punishments do not work, they look to send this kids to another school. The heartbreaking thing about all the off site direction and managed move stuff is that most kids who end up having to do this are those with consistent repetitive behaviour issues…. And those with consistent, repetitive behaviour issues almost always have either underlying SEN needs or mental health or trauma related issues.

I think there needs to be more awareness and training for schools on being able to spot the signs of potential SEN/ mental health issues before ruining a child’s education with constant punishments rather than offering support. My DS lost a whole year of his education not so long ago because he was either constantly in isolation or suspended or carted off to an off site direction. In reality he had undiagnosed SEN (now diagnosed).

I can see exactly where she’s coming from. It isn’t just meting out a punishment. It’s reducing his digital exposure. That said he sounds quite sporty so it may not be anything to do with it but that’s exactly where I’d start. Particularly violent games, YouTube etc.

The person I was replying to said “as a punishment” so that’s what I was responding to.

I actually agree that reduced TV and gaming time (and increased connection and conversation time, and outdoor activity) is a great idea. But framing it as a punishment would be the wrong way to go about it.

Yes I’ve just noticed that it really affects my son’s behaviour. He doesn’t play violent games anyway - more planes and countries of the world etc. I’m dreading him wanting to start that one. But YouTube - we kept catching him with the tablet on while he’s playing on the console - total information overload that caused concentration issues at school. He didn’t want to focus on anything for more than a few minutes. Couldn’t sit through a movie. He’s a lot better now. We haven’t banned YouTube completely because he likes watching tutorials about his games but these shorts are a nightmare for making attention spans even shorter.

Health anxiety started during covid.

Outside of school hes still a great kid. Not a trouble maker. Has a great group of friends (from a different school). They are great lads. He is very open with me and talks to me about everything, apart from school.

He cant seem to be able to explain his problems. If you start to talk to him about it he keeps repeating he doesnt care over and over . I think he does care, and this behaviour is to hide his struggles.

His teachers already make the same accommodations as if he does have adhd. They understand hes impulsive and repeats behaviours. But because he has now started to become aggressive to teachers its escalated.
Yes dad is in the picture

Been to multiple meetings with cahms. Then the assessment referal gets denied saying all of his issues are anxiety based.

What happened during Covid? Why is this something you don't want to expand on?