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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

To insist on good morning even when grumpy?

205 replies

Sawadeekaka · 22/04/2022 01:03

My teen dd isn't a morning person and goes to bed way too late too.
In the morning she's storming about and doesn't answer when I say good morning or have a good day when she leaves. Gets unpleasant when we hurry her so she doesn't miss the school bus (as then she has no way of getting to school other than us driving her).
I've told her that it's really not nice for us and that while she doesn't have to be cheerful or chatty that a minimum level of politeness is expected. A good morning to my good morning and a thank you to have a good day and no rudness if we need to hurry her so that she doesn't miss the bus.
This morning I said to her good morning and she refused to respond. When I told her it's not acceptable, she swore at me.
So now I intend to discuss and punish her.
My dh think iabu and that I should just accept she's grumpy in the morning and not speak to her at all. I think the basics of politeness are important in any family. If one of her friends or teachers was there, she would manage to be polite, that's for sure, so she's entirely capable of it.
Aibu?

OP posts:
MsKefir · 22/04/2022 12:21

This expectation for woman to play nicey nicey is really damaging.
^Same goes for OP's daughter. why should she be 'nicey nicey'?

@Sawadeekaka I agree with pp, you do sound very precious and seem to lack emotional intelligence. I don't and wouldn't tolerate swearing from anyone let alone my family. But I am not stupid enough to think a trigged developing teenager who probably thinks they have a hard life needs to give a cheery good morning. Leave her alone, step aside, support her and tune into her. Sounds like I am contradicting myself but that's where motional intelligence comes in. Please read about teenagers brains, you are at risk of making yourself an utter nuisance to your poor dc.

Nacknick · 22/04/2022 12:21

Ponderingwindow · 22/04/2022 03:18

She isn’t out in public. She shouldn’t have to be “on”. While she shouldn’t make anyone else’s life unpleasant, home is the place she should be able to drop the artifice off social convention. Wearing that public mask is exhausting. Why would you want to put that wall between yourself and your child so young? It may come some day. She will treat you as yet another person she has to put on a mask for and perform. Right now she still treats you like one of the trusted few.

I love this, such a great post

MsKefir · 22/04/2022 12:22

*a tired developing teenager (though they may feel triggered by an annoying mum)

phoenixrosehere · 22/04/2022 12:23

BotCrossHuns · 22/04/2022 11:09

I agree with you. She doesn't have to say much, but a 'morning', or a nod, or a hello, or even a friendly grunt would be fine - some kind of acknowledgement that you're there and you are part of a family and you're doing things for her. I think it's rude to ignore you, and just because she's a teenager doesn't excuse that. She might be moody or tired or whatever - you can understand that it makes it harder for her, but it doesn't excuse her not having the most minimal standards of politeness. I think getting into a stand-off in the morning won't help, though, so it's probably something that needs to be discussed at another time of day, expectations clearly laid out, you explaining why politeness and family understanding is important, how it comes across when she ignores you - she is old enough to understand that if she appears ungrateful and surly, that people won't want to be around her or will feel like she doesn't appreciate them at all. Yes, home/family might be where you are allowed to be yourself, be comfortable, not put on acts for the outside world - but it doesn't mean you can just take out all your inner feelings of grumpiness on them by stopping being polite and just doing whatever you want (or don't want). She needs to learn other ways of getting the grumpiness out of her system. I wouldn't make her chat or be cheerful or anything, but a mere acknowledgement that you are there and have said good morning, yes. That seems the very minimal standard of politeness to me.

I am often surprised by what parents of teenagers let them get away with, though. Because of online zoom sessions, I have been able to see more interactions between teenagers and parents than before because of my job, and I do find the level of rudeness in the way some teens speak to the parents shocking. There might be consequences after the session is over, so I am aware that I don't know the full picture, but it happens repeatedly and with little sign that it's anything out of the ordinary.

Agree.

My own sister was like this and still is to a certain extent at almost 30.

It is rude and having to deal with it as a sibling was a pita. It didn’t help that even when she was awake she still had an attitude and expected me to do things for her then would get annoyed when I didn’t as if she was entitled to be “grumpy” and rude and I should just deal with it anyway. My mother allowed it while my dad would pull her up on it which caused arguments between them, him often pointing out the double standard that she wouldn’t let me get away with behaving in such a way so why was she allowing her to. It got to the point, I actively stayed away from her unless asked by a parent or necessary family outings and pulled away from our mum for continuously allowing it and catering to her behaviour.

Have to admit though, I’m shocked that a simple grunt or even a nod of acknowledgement is too much to expect from someone who says good morning to you.

eddiemairswife · 22/04/2022 12:25

How far is school? Could she walk if she missed the bus?

5zeds · 22/04/2022 12:34

My eldest sister was horrible in the mornings. My parents ignored it and she is still awful when tired and just projects discomfort on everyone. I hated it. It made every day harder and personally I don’t think it’s ok at all. She CAN be polite, she’s choosing not to bother. Offer to return the favour if she doesn’t change.

Fizbosshoes · 22/04/2022 12:37

I have to say I hadn't thought about it but DD doesn't really offer a response other than a noise (rather than a decipherable word) to good morning. She stays up way to late and doesn't respond to nudging/encouraging or telling to go to bed early but isn't relying on anyone else to get her up. She's generally very good at getting ready. Her first words to me are usually to ask me if I'll make her lunch, iron a shirt or do her hair for her. (Mostly she does her own lunch but I'll do it if I'm making some anyway, or if she's running late)

Fizbosshoes · 22/04/2022 12:37

That said I would obviously find swearing unacceptable

Templeblossom · 22/04/2022 12:48

Indicatrice · 22/04/2022 12:17

Erm, no, it's not the first time. Read the OP. It isn't the first time dd hasn't responded, today is the first time OP has called her out on it.

Show quote history

Ok I thought Op said it was the first time.
Anyway advice remains the same

differentnameforthis · 22/04/2022 13:04

You know what's also considerate and kind, op?

Realizing that not everyone wants the same as you... I always greet my kids when they enter a room, they don't always reply because to us it's just an acknowledgment of seeing them.

I really can't get hung up on it... as someone else said, why do you want forced conversation?

Original poster
Sawadeekaka · 22/04/2022 13:16

Such an interesting variety of opinions. From people who would stand for far far less to those almost accusing me of abuse and lacking emotional intelligence and how dare I expect any interaction from a teenager in the morning and that DD will cut me off as an adult for doing so! Thus is the world I guess and parenting especially so (although still tickled about the thought of these silent households where no words are uttered in the mornings)

Anyway, I have spoken to DD. Punishment for swearing still stands and she understands that. But we've had a bit of a laugh about the ridiculousness of the mornings. Thank you to those empathetic and kind posters who helped me see more of DD's viewpoint as that was helpful in the discussion. She'll try to be nicer, I'll try to be more understanding and she's going to get herself out the door by herself (hopefully).

Devices/sleep thing is more tricky. As I thought, huge push-back and tears over that one which really worries me more than anything. She has recognised she needs more sleep and she's saying we can trust her not to go on the devices at night but it's a comfort to have them next to her - I find this quite worrying. But that's the next issue to deal with and I need to think this one of over more. Such a mistake to have allowed them back in her room at night during the lockdown.

OP posts:
phoenixrosehere · 22/04/2022 14:07

differentnameforthis · 22/04/2022 13:04

You know what's also considerate and kind, op?

Realizing that not everyone wants the same as you... I always greet my kids when they enter a room, they don't always reply because to us it's just an acknowledgment of seeing them.

I really can't get hung up on it... as someone else said, why do you want forced conversation?

How is just showing a form of acknowledgment, forced conversation?

Nothing has to be said to be acknowledged. A grunt, a nod, eye contact can suffice.

Glad it has all worked out OP. :-)

Knittingchamp · 22/04/2022 14:35

Sawadeekaka · 22/04/2022 11:24

How can it possibly be driving a big wedge between me and my DD when literally today is the first time I have called her out on this? 🙄
Please explain

I already explained this in my post OP! But to say it in a different way, she's waking up at the same time as you, when her biology makes it WAY harder for her than it is for you. Plus her teen hormones are all over the place. Then within seconds she's getting pressure to be meet your requirement for a good morning. I mean, what a depressing way to start the day.

I am sure you are a kind person in many ways but you don't seem to have the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes at all. But you've also already had a chat with your DD so it seems like things might get better. With devices I've never allowed them in the bedroom after 9.30, maybe that's a good approach for the tech issue.

Knittingchamp · 22/04/2022 14:41

Sawadeekaka · 22/04/2022 11:29

OP I think you're an additional cause of your teen being grumpy. She probably dreads seeing you in the mornings at the one moment in the day when she's exhausted and would do anything other than get out of bed.

And you're basing this on me saying to her 'Good morning' and 'Have a nice day'? Sometimes having to hurry her not to miss the bus. Today was literally the first time I have called her on the lack of response.

And then you wonder apparently this is 'veiled anger dressed as upbeat responses'? Maybe it's this kind of unnecessary and goady nastiness veiled as helpfulness which causes it?

Gently OP, if this is how you deal with conflict in your family, then no wonder your DD is having a hard time. Why not just listen to feedback rather than attack anyone who doesn't tell you what you want to hear?

There was also nothing veiled in my comment, I just said what I thought. I said what I did about your comments as you often reply on this thread in a passive aggressive way to people but end it in an emoji or joke to pretend you're happy.

But anyway as I said before glad you've had a chat with your DD. Good luck with it all.

MsKefir · 22/04/2022 14:55

Thank you to those empathetic and kind posters who helped me see more of DD's viewpoint as that was helpful in the discussion. She'll try to be nicer, I'll try to be more understanding and she's going to get herself out the door by herself (hopefully).
And hopefully you will also try to be kind and nicer to your dd, not just understanding. Even when we don't understand our teens, we can be kind and forgiving!

MsKefir · 22/04/2022 14:59

BY the way, OP, you'd have hated my previous work place. I'da arrive in the morning saying a friendly Good Morning, and while my team were super supportive and quite smart people, they never replied. Are you from another country, possibly where saying good morning is really important as part of your culture?

Keladrythesaviour · 22/04/2022 16:12

MsKefir · 22/04/2022 14:59

BY the way, OP, you'd have hated my previous work place. I'da arrive in the morning saying a friendly Good Morning, and while my team were super supportive and quite smart people, they never replied. Are you from another country, possibly where saying good morning is really important as part of your culture?

@MsKefir I'm English and work in an Enish workplace and I'd be really uncomfortable / annoyed if I said good morning to my team (I'm a manager) and they didn't acknowledge that in some way! I'd think it incredibly rude.

Keladrythesaviour · 22/04/2022 16:13

Enish= English

JaneJeffer · 22/04/2022 16:38

I don't do good morning. Leave her alone.

Kanaloa · 22/04/2022 16:58

It just seems like you’ve totally overlooked the obvious problems and are choosing instead to focus on her not replying cheerfully to you.

She stays up far too late and is then grumpy in the morning (obviously) and so your DH babies her out the door. That’s the problem. But rather than actually looking at that issue and seeing the obvious fix (she needs to take more responsibility over getting an appropriate amount of sleep so she can get up in the morning, possibly with support to sleep earlier) you want to punish her so she’ll start saying ‘morning mum!’

saraclara · 22/04/2022 17:30

MsKefir · 22/04/2022 14:59

BY the way, OP, you'd have hated my previous work place. I'da arrive in the morning saying a friendly Good Morning, and while my team were super supportive and quite smart people, they never replied. Are you from another country, possibly where saying good morning is really important as part of your culture?

Wow. I can't imagine ignoring a member of my team walking in and saying good morning to me. We always greeted each other on arrival. I wasn't necessarily in the mood for a chat beyond that, as first thing in the morning was a busy time. But eye contact and a "hiya" is surely the minimum amount of respect that you can pay anyone who works for/with you (assuming we're talking a handful of people and not 100)

JustDanceAddict · 22/04/2022 17:49

Ususlly ds greets me, but if he’s in a foul one I put up with a grunt! He’s usually better once he’s had his breakfast/shower as he’s refuelled and woken up a bit more.
its not something I’d insist on daily as he is generally polite.

MsKefir · 22/04/2022 18:08

I feel a bit validated now, as while my team was genuinely lovely I always felt a bit sad when they didn't reply. However, I wouldn't expect a cheery good morning from a grumpy teen first thing in the morning. OP, I had one more thought, apart from being tired and grumpy, your teen may just have found a thing that she is rebelling against, she thinks her mum is expecting a good morning, which puts her off and she rebells by not saying it. Try reverse psychology, drop the 'good morning' to her, she might be surprised and say it first.

eurochick · 22/04/2022 18:19

I'm not a morning person. Many mornings I feel groggy and awful. Like extreme jetlag. It's awful. My own household knows not to expect much of me but when my mil visits she always wants to chat then. I manage to be polite but it is a struggle. If she feels like I do I get it. I'm in my 40s and can manage politeness if I have to but a teen has less self-control.

One thing that might help is a lumie lamp. It wakes you gradually and helps me feel slightly less groggy

Kite22 · 22/04/2022 18:19

ispepsiokay · 22/04/2022 01:35

She doesn't owe you a good morning, it's a ridiculous hill to die upon.

Maybe you could consider being less cheerful and chatty in the morning as it can be as annoying as hell 😂

I know this is right back from the first replies on P!, but it is spot on.

YABVU.
I am a long way from being a teenager and don't want anyone being bright eyed and bushy tailed until I have been up at least an hour.

Great post by @Ponderingwindow , I think it was, about you being trusted as a person who loves her unconditionally and she doesn't have to, and shouldn't have to 'put a mask on' for you, in her own home.