To insist on good morning even when grumpy?

[Sawadeekaka]

My teen dd isn't a morning person and goes to bed way too late too.
In the morning she's storming about and doesn't answer when I say good morning or have a good day when she leaves. Gets unpleasant when we hurry her so she doesn't miss the school bus (as then she has no way of getting to school other than us driving her).
I've told her that it's really not nice for us and that while she doesn't have to be cheerful or chatty that a minimum level of politeness is expected. A good morning to my good morning and a thank you to have a good day and no rudness if we need to hurry her so that she doesn't miss the bus.
This morning I said to her good morning and she refused to respond. When I told her it's not acceptable, she swore at me.
So now I intend to discuss and punish her.
My dh think iabu and that I should just accept she's grumpy in the morning and not speak to her at all. I think the basics of politeness are important in any family. If one of her friends or teachers was there, she would manage to be polite, that's for sure, so she's entirely capable of it.
Aibu?

Thats for the swearing. Totally unacceptable

Not at all i said she's generally unpleasant. This is how it is manifested. What did you think it meant?

How was she when she got home, there is no point even discussing it when they are like that, but later when she’s calm and awake is a better option.

I'm not so surprised. Aibu has descended a bit into the ridiculous which is a shame
It used to be really useful but now it's just becoming silly

I think you might have more look trying for ´hello’ rather than ´good morning’. Less jarring when you’re grumpy in the morning. My mum used to ask teenage me ´how are you today?´ before I left for the school bus and I’d say ´It’s too early, I don’t know yet.’

Look = luck

We're quite a bit ahead of the UK in time zones so this morning has already happened 😀
Last night I told her that her morning behaviour isn't ok and needs to change but still was bad. When I pointed this out to her this morning she swore at me which I will address this afternoon when she's home

She's a teen it's a tough time, trying to push boundaries. I'd say the swearing and slamming doors needs addressing but if she's not feeling the good morning thing don't push it.

As ever @MrsTerryPratchett , I wish you were my mum 😂

You can't force someone to be ungrumpy. Would a forced "good morning" through gritted teeth really be better?

She shouldn't be rude (there's absolutely no excuse for shouting/swearing at you etc) but there's just no point trying to force her to be fake polite. In fact I would go so far as to say its quite rude of you to bully her like this.

If it bothers you so much, then stay out of her way, and leave her to get herself up and ready.

@allsorts1

As ever @MrsTerryPratchett , I wish you were my mum 😂

Ask DD when she's in therapy in a few years.

All of us mess all of them up!

I honestly don't see why it's so difficult to return a greeting, even if you're grumpy or even if you're not feeling it. Yes, sometimes we do need to be polite towards others even if we're not in the mood and that even includes your parents. Certainly don't think that is bullying. I wasn't a great teen myself but I managed to do this. I'm not expecting anything that I wouldn't expect of myself or of others. I'd never not return a greeting, it's really not difficult.

But, OK, I'll leave the greeting specific issues in preference for the bigger issue which is all the general unpleasantness (of which this is a part IMO) involved in getting DD out of the house and having her take some more responsibility for herself if she wants to be left alone.

YABU to try to control anyone and force them to speak whenever you want.

I honestly don't see why it's so difficult to return a greeting, even if you're grumpy or even if you're not feeling it
and therein lies the problem. You don’t think it’s difficult, but it obviously is. And you’ve got yourself into this stubborn “she WILL return my greeting mindset!” where it sounds like you’re deliberately provoking her with passive-aggressive cheeriness.

You, presumably, don’t want every morning to be a battle. At the moment it is, and one side needs to offer a rapprochement first. It’s your job as the parent to do that: stop the good morning/hello/expectation of reciprocal greetings as step one. Then move on to the general morning routine.

I agree with pp you need to have the conversation at a neutral time, and it needs to be a “this isn’t working, let’s find a way that works” rather than a “my way or the highway” punishment.

It does sound like you are being a bit of a bully about it. If you want her to be nice to you, you'll probably have to take a different tack.

It also sounds like she's not getting enough sleep if she finds it that difficult to get up in the morning. My DD 14 is asleep by 10.30pm and gets herself up at 7am.

I also think you might find if she gets better sleep, she'll be in a better mood in the morning

It sounds like you have made this into a battle. You say 'good morning' she ignores you. You prod, passive aggressively trying to force a greeting out of her to 'win'. She tells you to fuck off or whatever she said.

I have a grumpy teen in the morning who loathes school. We've found something that works for us, which doesn't involve rudeness or forced breezy greetings.

You know she isn't going to say good morning, so why do you continue to poke the bear?

It seems for your own satisfaction, but to what ends? Why MUST you get your greeting?

I think this is an annoying part of teenagerhood.
Teens physically and mentally struggle with mornings due to the changes in their bodies.
My dd stopped saying please and thank you for a couple of years. I picked her up on it EVERY SINGLE TIME and it really got to me.
She outgrew it. Yours will too.
Secondary schools and sixth forms should start later in the day, 10am at the earliest as this has been proven to work best for teenagers brains. Our secondary started at 8.30am. No wonder the kids struggled.

Well, the bedtime will be a WHOLE separate battle. We used to remove the phone but that stopped with lockdown and now it's been hard to get back now they're back at school. DD has an early start - needs to be up at 6 and out the door by 6.35. Last night I went to her room at 10.15 and she was still awake. Re-implementing device removal is going to be hard. She will kick off big time. But perhaps this might be necessary as I'm sure she's not getting enough sleep, hence the unpleasantness.

There is no bullying, no enforced cheeriness or goading. Of course not. Why on earth would I do that? That doesn't happen. I just expect politeness and I behave towards her as I have always done and as I behave towards others in the family. We say good morning. I really don't think this is a weird or bizarre thing to do.

You should back down on the greeting part, it isn't essential and in no way relates to how she would behave to others outside the family circle. Address the other behaviour, swearing and slamming doors etc, that is something you are in the right to tackle.

Yanbu op it's rude

My dd can be the same (13)

TEENAGERS 😠

And this has been going over for a while and I haven't been enforcing other than gently pointing out it's not OK. But the behaviour is going downhill, not getting better. Last night I told her it's unacceptable and I expect minimal politeness and followed up on it this morning.

That's fine. It's part of a package of unacceptable behavior anyhow, not something that stands on its own.
Reflecting, probably it's lack of sleep and I'm thinking of weekday device removal at a reasonable hour as we used to do last year - but this is actually going to be a bigger battle. As most teens, she's very attached to having her devices in her room all the time. She has an early start and she's not sleeping enough.

I honestly don't see why it's so difficult to return a greeting, even if you're grumpy or even if you're not feeling it.

Your insistence on wanting one and her insistence on not giving one are two sides of the same coin. You've instilled the meaning in it, and now it's the hill you're both dying on. If it's nothing, you shouldn't care if she does it or not. But it's not nothing. You know it and she knows it. It's become a Thing.

You have to change the game. It's oppositional right now. You vs her. And a stubborn teenager will walk over broken glass not to lose. Even if they don't win. You have to stop the game being about winning and losing. You have to get on her team. Work together to find solutions. You can have boundaries, they're great. But they have to make sense and not be meaningless.

Slamming and swearing are hills I'd die on. Well, slamming would be. But how you approach that is important. I'm not sure you are quite ready to rewrite the relationship.

I often say, 'just because someone throws a ball, doesn't mean you have to chase it'. She does something, really think before you react. Then 90% of the time, don't react. Try to work out what's going on. And empathise.

I agree with this.
My mum (who gave me a lift to work every day) would get cross with me as I wouldn’t speak in the morning. I’m 50 now.

She told me unless we could start having a conversation in the morning, I would have to start catching the bus.

I started catching the bus. My brain just doesn’t work in the morning to allow me to have a conversation! Things haven’t changed, & my husband. & kids are just the same, thank goodness.

If this is the biggest complaint, OP, you have about your daughter I would definitely let it go.

I have to wake both my children (11 & 14) as no matter how many alarms, or how loud, they just don’t wake them up. It’s annoying but it does get better (my 14 year old is pretty good now at getting up, but wasn’t for years).

@Sawadeekaka

That's fine. It's part of a package of unacceptable behavior anyhow, not something that stands on its own. Reflecting, probably it's lack of sleep and I'm thinking of weekday device removal at a reasonable hour as we used to do last year - but this is actually going to be a bigger battle. As most teens, she's very attached to having her devices in her room all the time. She has an early start and she's not sleeping enough.

Yup.

Tiredness is the bane of teenage moods. That and pain, hunger, relationships and all the other crud.

What's she doing on the device?