To insist on good morning even when grumpy?

[Sawadeekaka]

My teen dd isn't a morning person and goes to bed way too late too.
In the morning she's storming about and doesn't answer when I say good morning or have a good day when she leaves. Gets unpleasant when we hurry her so she doesn't miss the school bus (as then she has no way of getting to school other than us driving her).
I've told her that it's really not nice for us and that while she doesn't have to be cheerful or chatty that a minimum level of politeness is expected. A good morning to my good morning and a thank you to have a good day and no rudness if we need to hurry her so that she doesn't miss the bus.
This morning I said to her good morning and she refused to respond. When I told her it's not acceptable, she swore at me.
So now I intend to discuss and punish her.
My dh think iabu and that I should just accept she's grumpy in the morning and not speak to her at all. I think the basics of politeness are important in any family. If one of her friends or teachers was there, she would manage to be polite, that's for sure, so she's entirely capable of it.
Aibu?

You intend to punish her for not replying to you in the morning?! You've got a few years of her being moody. It's the way teenagers are.

Either speak to her in the morning or don't (I'd say don't) but don't concern yourself with whether or not she answers. I remember one of my sons being the same - he used to sit on the stairs to eat his cereal as he couldn't stand me being chatty in the mornings.

@SmallPrawnEnergy
Ahhh, you got me. You clever thing!!!
Round of applause👏

No, punishment is for swearing.

Yep, maybe a reward will help. Perhaps an increase in pocket money.

Good grief. I can't believe how many people are accepting and justifying obnoxious behaviour on the grounds that ' she's a teen, you have to expect it'.

No, you don't. I'm not a morning person, my daughters weren't morning people, but we still managed to acknowledge each other's existence in the morning, and there were no slammed doors and there was absolutely no swearing.

Parenting still needs to happen during the trend and unacceptable behaviour addressed. It seems that a lot of people here just opt out completely and allow their teenagers to treat them like shit.
Not answering a greeting isn't about being too tired to speak. It's a deliberate rebuff. A sleepy " 'morning" is not an unreasonable thing to expect, and the withholding of it is deliberately rude.

Good morning is the kind of meaningless crap you have to perform at work and school.

Home should be a place where you let down your guard and be yourself.
I'm a geunter in the morning, luckily my mum is the same, so we have built up a non verbal morning language over the years. If she said good morning to be I'd know the body snatchers had got her.

6.30 is very early for a teen who needs sleep for brain development. I would be having a chat about how I could help maximise her sleep in the evening, in a non judgemental way because most adults struggle to get up before then without coffee etc to help them and they don't even need sleep as much as a developing teen.

My best friends parents tried to enforce forced politeness in their house. She's formal with them and moved overseas without a second thought for them, doesn't act naturally with her own children around them, actively avoids them for this reason.

I don't think it creates a happy, genuine environment that people seek out. It creates a work atmosphere and most of us don't want to feel like we've clocked on in our own homes.

The swearing (at you) is a separate issue, but I imagine it might not happen if you dropped the forced good morning.

Wow not only did she ignore your good morning but she swore at you?

That's unacceptable behaviour, teenage or not. Where are her manners? So rude.

I'd never dream of speaking to my mum like that.

I completely disagree with the 'pick your battles' mentality.

Yes teenagers are difficult but I don't think letting them crack on because in several years they might not be an ar**hole anymore.

My eldest isn't great in the mornings but I wouldn't just ignore him to avoid the grumpy response.

Hmmm ......are there cultural influences at play here also?

All I can say ... just don't get me started on 15 year old daughter at the moment!

But surely if someone, anyone, says good morning to you, the minimum expected response is good morning back

in the context of family, some sort of acknowledgement is fine (a grunt will do)

Otherwise, absolutely not. Nobody owes anyone else validation and girls should be taught that they don't have to jump to other peoples (usually men) tune.

Swearing is a completely different issue - I don't tolerate that from my son.

I agree. It's the same mentality as "smile love" from random men. No one owes anyone any response.

I could’ve written your post OP. I can’t count the number of times we’ve told DD she needs to make an effort to at least speak a few words 🤷‍♀️ I’m hoping it’s just a phase….

@Sawadeekaka Ah. Well. She does sound knackered and hormonal but yeah, teenage culture is very rude and should be addressed. But I think you should be looking more at the causes yes - phone and social media is of course a biggie but I was foul to my parents and there were no phones then ;)

Have you talked to her about the psychological aspect of phones - that they cause real recognised addiction and also that studies have shown now that they decrease wellbeing. I have been talking about these things with my daughter since she was quite young and first got her phone. I gave up my smartphone some years ago. I don't go overboard because I see that it's impossible for them to fit in culturally without a phone and even leaves them more vulnerable imo, but I do emphasise that I believe these to be essentially enslaving devices and that they change the brain, including concentration ability and wellbeing etc etc.

My kiddy is quite good with hers but it's early days really and she doesn't have proper social media. She's also she's in a bunk which means when her phone is plugged in at night she can't reach it so that's worked out quite well ;)

Talk about the need for sleep etc, impact on the brain. Reason and empathy. My parents annoyed me so much when I was that age, I don't think an enforced good morning would have gone down well. Just carry on being lovely to her and maybe she'll start to feel a bit guilty. Make a joke out of it? Humour can be a good way to break tension...

I think her swearing at you should be the last straw. I'd sit her down tonight and I would say that she needs to grow up and behave herself in a family home. I'd say that from now on I wasn't going to wake her up and that the mornings were entirely up to her.

surely if someone, anyone, says good morning to you, the minimum expected response is good morning back?
Couldn't agree more. I'm not a night person, and have often found myself at other people's houses/gatherings way past my bedtime and feeling very out of sorts; I assume, the way a non-morning person feels first thing.
But guess what? I manage to muster at least a civil 'goodnight' and a 'thank you' if someone says 'home safe' or 'sleep well' or whatever.
It's not impossible.

Totally disagree that 'no-one is owed a response'. And somehow this descends into sexual boundaries.
Try going into a shop in France and not returning 'Bonjour'. You'll soon find out they most certainly are owed a response, male or female.

I wouldn't worry about the good morning etc.

I'd be more concerned that you still have to chin by her along to make the school bus and she hasn't learnt to (or your not insisting) on reasonable bedtimes so she isn't tired. (Do you remove all tech?)

I would go for an agreement that she doesn't have to talk but she can't be rude.

That you will not chivvy her along and she's responsible for herself.

But that if she misses the bus and needs a lift then there is X consequence.

The 'noone is owed a response' thing is definitely ridiculous. People do not exist in a vacuum. Civility is everything to our way of life. Encouragement to be reasonable, polite and civil is not oppression fgs!

Yes, that might be the way to go. If she's not capable of being polite in the morning, she needs to do it all herself.

I agree with this OP. Stop greeting her in the morning and tell DH that the mollycoddling needs to stop. She gets herself up and ready.

Maybe let her miss the bus and don’t give a lift so she understands the consequences?

There is no bullying, no enforced cheeriness or goading. Of course not. Why on earth would I do that?

You seem to be in denial about your behaviour and how your DD sees it. Of COURSE forcing a "good morning" is enforced cheeriness, and you enforcing it WILL feel like goading. Whether you mean to or not. You don't seem at all willing to consider how your DD views these interactions.

But it's not insistence

I mean, it literally is. That's what you're doing!

If you communicate with your DD anything like you communicate on this thread I can very much understand why she'd be grumpy and fight you on this absurdly unnecessary point you're trying to prove.

I agree with this so much!

As a teenagerok, ok, even still today I was NOT a morning person. I'd just about to be able to communicate in a grunt as mum woke me up and said good morning. She never ever made a deal of it because she knew I loved her and wasn't being rude, a grunt was about all I was capable of at that point.

@IsabelaMadrigal

Good morning is the kind of meaningless crap you have to perform at work and school.

Home should be a place where you let down your guard and be yourself.
I'm a geunter in the morning, luckily my mum is the same, so we have built up a non verbal morning language over the years. If she said good morning to be I'd know the body snatchers had got her.

6.30 is very early for a teen who needs sleep for brain development. I would be having a chat about how I could help maximise her sleep in the evening, in a non judgemental way because most adults struggle to get up before then without coffee etc to help them and they don't even need sleep as much as a developing teen.

My best friends parents tried to enforce forced politeness in their house. She's formal with them and moved overseas without a second thought for them, doesn't act naturally with her own children around them, actively avoids them for this reason.

I don't think it creates a happy, genuine environment that people seek out. It creates a work atmosphere and most of us don't want to feel like we've clocked on in our own homes.

The swearing (at you) is a separate issue, but I imagine it might not happen if you dropped the forced good morning.

This is really important, I think you need to decide what you want your relationship with your daughter to be like ling term.

If you want it to be superficial and polite, with niceties observed then carry on. You will have that but will be kept at arms length.

If you are hoping for a close, deep open and honest relationship where she comes to you with problems, shares her life and feelings and wants to spend time.e with you then you probably need to pay more attention to posters like @MrsTerryPratchett who has had some really good advice.

Some people aren't morning people, including me and my own DD in my family. We're just like that and no amount of sleep makes us more cheery when we wake up.

I've often grunted a 'morning' at colleagues if I've had to but thankfully my manager is the same and prefers it if no one approaches before we've managed to get a caffeine fix and warm up at work.

I won't force the obedience of a returned good morning if I do say it, just like I won't force a returned smile. Women have been forced to be 'polite' and react how others expect them to for centuries.