To insist on good morning even when grumpy?

[Sawadeekaka]

My teen dd isn't a morning person and goes to bed way too late too.
In the morning she's storming about and doesn't answer when I say good morning or have a good day when she leaves. Gets unpleasant when we hurry her so she doesn't miss the school bus (as then she has no way of getting to school other than us driving her).
I've told her that it's really not nice for us and that while she doesn't have to be cheerful or chatty that a minimum level of politeness is expected. A good morning to my good morning and a thank you to have a good day and no rudness if we need to hurry her so that she doesn't miss the bus.
This morning I said to her good morning and she refused to respond. When I told her it's not acceptable, she swore at me.
So now I intend to discuss and punish her.
My dh think iabu and that I should just accept she's grumpy in the morning and not speak to her at all. I think the basics of politeness are important in any family. If one of her friends or teachers was there, she would manage to be polite, that's for sure, so she's entirely capable of it.
Aibu?

1. Who says the people in the shop expecting a response are right?
2. Do you live in a French shop? She shouldn't be expected to 'perform' in her own home.

And you're far ruder based on how you post and clearly incapable of RTFT.

I only followed up on it this morning after telling her last night hence not insistence. There has been no insistence.

YOU'VE decided it's goading. I've told you it's not but it is how I speak to all family members and, indeed, DD. You know, just saying good morning and wishing them a good day as I always have done. If you actually knew the definition of goading (look it up), it's all about intent to do something so you're entirely wrong there.

Because we live in a society where civility is expected. It is rude to ignore a civil and appropriate greeting. Totally different to setting boundaries for unwanted sexual contact.
I also expect a minimum level of civility at home (equally for dd and ds, it's not a feminist issue).

OP, you are getting weird and stroppy responses, probably from people who are grumpy in the morning themselves.
Of course you are not expecting too much for a civil good morning. You make it clear that you are not trying to engage in conversation, just a normal polite acknowledgment that it is a new day and that you have been seen.
I have had 3 children, all of whom are grown up, so I know what grumpy teens are. I also remember my own best friend being awful in the morning and unable to speak. With hindsight I think it was due to insufficient sleep, so she was still in a very deep sleep when she got woken.
Is your DD getting enough sleep? Maybe she needs to go to bed earlier if her lack of sleep makes her unable to function- her difficulty waking up would point towards this being an issue.

Your team at work or a random stranger is an entirely different dynamic to a parent/teen relationship. This honestly isn't something I'd push. I'm sore she'll respond to others but sounds like you not need to leave her be outside of necessary interaction. By all means discuss/correct the rudeness for the necessary waking etc though

I lost both of my parents in my early twenties, some of my nicest memories of them are the small acts of kindness from them through my teenage years. Your husband setting out her things for her made me smile, such a small thing but even if not acknowledged I bet she appreciates it. It’s not mollycoddling, it’s his demonstration of love and kindness. 6am is super early for a teen, only half an hour later than my alarm when I was on shifts, she is probably not fully awake and really not up for pleasantries, although unpleasant behaviour, swearing etc shouldn’t be accepted. I would have a chat after school, recognise how difficult her mornings are and discuss what can be done to make it easier for all of you, and if that is complete silence then so be it. I have two grown up children who have grown into lovely adults, at times during their teen years we had to pull them up on their behaviour but always tried to do it calmly, cutting them slack if necessary and trying to retain a sense of humour. Trust me, you will miss her once grown and away from home.

Something isnt working Op
Instead of pushing your teenager to the point she loses it at 6am every morning,
why not be a little more self aware and back off?
It is goading when you know shes tired, grumpy and you have seen the reaction you are going to get.
No I dont agree with her swearing before you say I tolerate it, I dont.
But I do understand that its silly to keep banging the drum and repeating the same behaviour.

Its your "I am right" stance thats causing this.
Shes not 3, punishing her is going to escalate this.
She needs space in the morning, be firm that shes going to get herself up and no swearing.
Then step away ...

As I've explained, it's only this morning that I actually told her I would appreciate a response. Do I say good morning to her every morning? Well, yes. It just seems normal to me. I say this to all family members. Only this morning have I pulled her up on the lack of response after telling her last night. So it's not 'banging a drum' or continually going on at her. That's not the dynamic at all.

Goading is if you do something to intentionally provoke a negative reaction. That is not the situation and never has been. I have always said good morning to family members as it's a pleasant thing to do.

Even a grunt of acknowledgment would be appreciated.

You've made me laugh as I just remembered my best friend at school being absolutely horrendous with her mum in the mornings.

Perhaps it's a generational thing, this acceptance of lack of basic civility. On the other hand, not answering a text immediately is a crisis from DD's perspective (whereas I don't see the urgency on my side). So perhaps I need to start texting her good morning 😃

I also expect a minimum level of civility at home
Which is reasonable: the door slamming and swearing has to stop. But why is exchanging pointless greetings “civil”, but wanting quiet in the morning as your daughter does is “uncivil”? From her point of view, you’re not meeting the minimum level of civility because you’re demanding responses at a time when she’s entitled to be quiet and simply get ready.

Must admit I'm having trouble imagining all these households with grumpy teens where total silence in the morning is the norm because, well, it's morning and no one speaks to one another unless absolutely essential like nuns in a nunnery at mealtimes.

I guess always good to know folk live like this, never come across it myself!

It's probably your insistence on jolly 'good mornings' that are making her even grumpier in the mornings. It's not a battle I would fight.

@CuriousCatfish
as explained

1. Not expecting jolliness, just politeness


2. Only insisted this morning on a response hence not the explanation for the grumpiness which is ongoing

No one said it has to be 'jolly' Why are people making things up?

Model manners has been my approach.
When others are involved I might mention it afterwards. Or prime them in a "do put your head round the door and ay hi to aunty" kind of way.

Tbh at about age 15 I withdrew from any negative comments for a while: either through discretion or cowardice, I'm not sure which.

@DameHelena
It's AIBU, people always seem to create certain stories in their heads and make up the details to suit, regardless of what has been posted.
I asked for this to be moved to 'teenagers' as probably I will get more helpful inputs than some of the ridiculous posts on here where people seem to think that we should tiptoe around DD in monastic silence in the mornings with only urgent whispered requests if absolutely essential.

I know it was a flippant remark but I've found texting greetings to my youngest, though it seems rather forced and fake to me, has been received far better than I could have wished for!
Maybe try it and see?

i agree. I have a family member who is rude in the morning. It makes it very uncomfortable for everyone. Her son did get into the same habit unchallenged. It absolutely drove me nuts. Say good morning FFS!

Some of us find your behaviour bizarre. Not knowing that the difficulty waking up in the morning is a perfectly normal developmental phase for teens. Picking this as a hill to die on is bizarre to me. You seem unable to think about it from her point of view and rigid fixed in your thinking.

Try going into a shop in France and not returning 'Bonjour'.

Odd example. In my experience, Bonjour without the Madam/M'sieur would be considered rude, only acceptable when addressing servant.

As for parenting teenagers I absolutely agree with @MrsTerryPratchett who expresses things so much better than I could.

It's obviously up to you how you parent @Sawadeekaka The important point for me is how you model relationships to your teen. Do you set absolute standards or are you open to discussion? How do you want the relationship to develop as your DC move beyond the point where you can enforce standards (as you are at the moment). Do you want them to admire and respect you and your attitude to life? Do you want them to continue to be a part of their life as they grow up or would you prefer compliance and resulting minimum contact so they live their lives without you?

This is by no means to just 'leave them to it' It is possible but, as you are finding, really not easy at all. If you go nuclear about a 'good morning' what would you have left in response to what else teen might throw at you ? I would encourage you to not go there in the first place.

Negotiate. All the best.

Maybe have a blanket 'no devices' policy after 8 or 9pm on weekdays? Include the whole family, get one of those lock boxes and set it to open at 6am. That way, your DD won't feel targeted, it's not unfair, and everyone gets a break from screen time.

Ultimately, you don't believe you are being unreasonable so it's not clear what you wanted from this thread. Normally the people posting are at least vaguely open to a different point of view.

So, make her say good morning. Live your best life.

YANBU. People should be able to say a simple hello or good morning even if they’re not a ‘morning person’.

Your responses, OP, on here have been belligerent. I’d expect more politeness towards other people’s opinions. I don’t know about your daughter, but I think you could show more manners!

Actually, I've found SOME of the posts very helpful in formulating my approach. So ta very much, that's what I've got from this thread in case you were concerned. The sensible and understanding posters have helped me identify the bigger issue.

I've also learnt that some people think total silence in the morning is a way to live and others expect minimal polite interaction and that both are totally legitimate and fine ways to live.

Additionally, it's been reinforced that there are some pretty out-there views on mumsnet and people make shit up and don't RTFT or even the OP and actually are just pretty rude and insulting. But that's an online forum for you so you take the good with the bad. My mistake posting in AIBU (mea culpa) and I've asked for it be moved to teenagers.