We took our eye off the ball and now DS is...

[DustinTheTurkey]

I don't even know what he is. Or who. He's not even a teenager yet and I probably shouldn't have posted on this board, but he's just a few months off 13 so hopefully someone here will have some advice.

He's smart, popular and has always been just fine, no real problems at all. He started secondary school in September and it seems to have just spiralled from there. I hate the phrase "he's fallen in with a bad crowd" but that's exactly what's happened and we had no idea. He had a small group of friends all through primary school. We knew them and their parents and all was good. He got a phone for his 12th birthday and we have family sharing on it, only age-appropriate apps, regular checks by us etc. In the last few months we've noticed he's so moody, doesn't want to spend any time with us, often cheeky mumbling under his breath that sort of thing. Ususal hormone stuff we thought. He's not allowed out mid week, but on weekends we'd allowed him to go to the local skatepark and out and about on his bike with his pals. A few months ago I allowed him to have an Instagram account and I follow it. Pics and videos of him doing wheelies and jumps on the bike, that sort of thing. But he'd created a new instagram account so I was stupidly following the sanitised one.

Turns out he's now part of what seems like (or they act like) a gang. We don't know any of these boys, but we've been given a heads-up on a few of them and they're trouble. And now he is too. He's been vaping, hanging around an underpass with fires lighting, setting fire to deodorant cans (that he has stolen from DH bathroom!) We've seen videos of them doing this, heard repulsive language and seen photos of them with their stupid 'gang' hand gestures. He had told us he was out with his 'old' friends but he wasn't, he's basically ditched them for this new lot and seems to be totally infatuated with them.

We don't know what to do to get him back on track. We've removed his phone and made him delete his social media accounts. He's grounded for the next few weeks. But we've no idea how to handle this going forward. We don't want to keep him under house arrest but we know we can't trust him. He doesn't seem to be able to tell one word of truth! And we know that the draw back to these boys is so strong that if we give him any chance to meet them he will.

Has anyone else managed to get their boy back on the right path? Any suggestions or words of wisdom? We are beside ourselves with worry and so full of shame and guilt that we let this happen

I was your son. Nice middle class parents and a private education!

Fell in with an odd crowd and ended up being asked to leave my school. Mum was desperately ashamed of me.

Can’t tell you why I did it, but I continued being ‘bad’ at my next school - however I finished school, actually did really well, went to uni and now have a very normal life.

Some people are just attracted to danger and risk. My parents were quite strict and didn’t do things like drink or smoke so I suppose maybe I was curious and wanted to feel something. We also moved a lot when I was growing up so maybe fitting in was a thing as well.

Other people will be along with good advice but just wanted to share. What my parents did well was that they emphasized that while they were furious with me, they loved me and thought I had so much potential, and they didn’t want me to throw that all away.

The other thing I was to say is this is not your fault. My mum blamed herself and even as a teen I thought this was silly - I never thought my behaviour was down to something she did or did not do.

I was diagnosed with adhd as an adult which my psychiatrist says could explain some of my risky behaviours when I was younger.

Not an expert so can only offer sympathy. I have a DC of 10.
You say you “don’t know who he is” and this strikes me as true. Maybe he’s changed recently or maybe he was different from who you thought he was for quite a while and you didn’t notice. And now he’s old enough to show you instead of going along with your version of him.
But anyway you need to find out who he is now. What motivates him. Be interested in what he’s interested in. What worries he may have.
You can’t change a person as such.
But you might be able to steer him in a better direction if you roll with him rather than against him.
If that makes any sense🤔

And yes as a pp implied above, try to outrule any learning disorders he may have that may not have been obvious in primary school.

Thank you for the replies, and in particular for sharing the similar experience and that you've turned out alright!

He constantly says that we're over protective and that everyone else is allowed to do x y z (insert whatever it is he's not allowed to do) We have told him that we're so disappointed in the behaviour, as well as pointing out how bloody dangerous some of it is but that our main priority is his safety and wellbeing because we love him so much.

There are definitely no leaning disorders - he is very smart just not one bit interested, unfortunately.

He just seems incredibly immature, and I know from speaking to his pals' mums thats perfectly normal for 13 yr old boys but I do think this makes him easily led. He'd do anything to get a laugh from the 'cool' boys, and be in with that crowd. He seems totally obsessed with it. He's been getting messages from some of them saying things like "you're a fucking legend you took one for the team and didn't grass us up, we owe you man" - what 13 year old speaks like that really?? well, my one and that one for starters, but really.... it's honestly like he's been replaced by an alien.

Is it a school with a very small minority of problem kids? If so, there is hope he will make another set of friends who are better behaved.

If he only started in September there is still time for this friendship group to blow over and the school can help with this. They can identify a child who has fallen into the wrong group and direct them subtly towards better choices. I would contact the school and tell them your concerns and ask for help. They can perhaps change his tutor group, put him in a different half of the year, take steps to limit his interaction with these kids. In doing so, he may meet other people. Pretty much no-one is still in their primary school friendship group by December, so forget about those children, even if they were a nice friendship group - they all change significantly a few months into secondary.

In brief, it is not too late at this stage but you need to completely stop him seeing these people. At 12 it won't hurt to keep him at home for a few weeks. Get the school involved - they won't want him to go off the rails and there is still time for some intervention to steer him towards other people.

And lock down the phone with a parental control app - Family Link for androids and there is something similar for iphones. Limit time allowed, limit apps allowed, limit phone bedtime.

Hi @stayhomeatchristmas the school has over 1000 pupils and unfortunately I think maybe more than a few are trouble. Not all of the boys that he's been hanging around with are in his school though, some are in other schools in the town which is why we don't see any point in considering a move to another school. The school are now aware because him being grounded led to a girl in his class getting awful abuse (online) from one of these boys as they thought (wrongly) that her mother had brought something to our attention, so this poor girl was branded a 'rat' and threatened with all sorts when in actual fact my DH noticed something that prompted us to do some serious digging and that's how we found out. So yes the school are aware but I'm not sure how much they can do to actually keep them apart. Although he's only in one class with one of the boys so the only opportunity to see them really is at break times.

With regards the phone, we thought we had it all covered. We are all on iPhone and we have family sharing set up so any apps have to be approved by me first etc. and I can control screen times. He always has to hand his phone over at 9pm. The problem is that he was able to create a new/secret (from us) email and then setup a second Instagram ID and in turn Snapchat ID so he had all this stuff going on that we knew nothing about. Very good at covering his tracks. The principal we spoke to said it's a huge problem and they spend a lot of time trying to jump one step ahead of the teens as they are constantly finding ways around the rules! It's a nightmare!!

The other problem is he has an iPad for school all his schoolwork is done on it, they use 'teams' to find out about homework etc. so we can't take that off him but of course they can message each other on that and he has been accessing his (secret) insta and snapchat accounts on that and then deleting the history so we didn't see.

He puts a lot more effort into being devious and lying than he does into anything else It's almost impressive (joking)

I had similar issues with one of my DC. We ended up having to change schools. Luckily DC realised the friend group "wasn't nice" but by that point no one else wanted to be their friend as they were one of the "bad" kids. They were also scared that by breaking friendships they would become a target and the group was known to be violent at times. I ended up home schooling for a few months whilst applying for the new school and we became closer. The old school were not supportive but I had proof of drug use on school grounds along with other issues and contacted the police.

OK, sorry I couldn't help. My DS made some friends in the first term of secondary that didn't last past the Christmas holidays and then in the January term he thankfully made some more suitable friends. The first lot weren't bad at the time, but subsequently did turn out to be the naughty kids who got excluded and into drugs etc, so we were always thankful that DS went back in January and made better choices. It helped that the first lot of unsuitable friends were quite mean to DS at one point so he had an incentive to change friendship groups.
Is your DS into any sports? Very time-consuming sports like swimming clubs are good for stopping kids going down the wrong path. IOr even a time-consuming hobby like X-box.

@DustinTheTurkey

The other problem is he has an iPad for school all his schoolwork is done on it, they use 'teams' to find out about homework etc. so we can't take that off him but of course they can message each other on that and he has been accessing his (secret) insta and snapchat accounts on that and then deleting the history so we didn't see.

He puts a lot more effort into being devious and lying than he does into anything else It's almost impressive (joking)

You can take it off him.

He can access Teams on a family computer or laptop in full view of you at all times instead.

Tell the school about the messaging using Teams - they are responsible for that and any misuse. Our school had to turn off the 'Chat' function on the schools Teams due to misuse. The Chat function is permanently off now and I don't think it has caused any problems.

Are there any hobbies that he would be interested in? Some kind of sport like judo or football outside school where he would meet other people and give him something to feel more confident about. Also something a bit more positive to do.

I note you ruled out ADHD because he’s smart. I did well at school and went to Oxbridge yet was still diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. Many people with ADHD are smart and even successful.

@Qqwweerrtty

Are there any hobbies that he would be interested in? Some kind of sport like judo or football outside school where he would meet other people and give him something to feel more confident about. Also something a bit more positive to do.

yes, and keep him busy. That is key. The busier the better. Very time-consuming sports or hobbies would be ideal. 12 is not to late to start any sport/hobby, plus there are clubs/groups for different abilities.

You say he is into biking , is there any group he could join to do this in a more professional way ? Keep him busy so he doesn’t have time to just ‘hang around’.
I’m not sure it’s altogether realistic to keep him apart from these other kids if they all go to school together but if you could redirect his free time a little more that may help.

I'm not sure where you are OP, but it would be worth making enquiries with your local PCSOs (or whatever they are called these days). There may be officers who have a lot of experience with intervening with young people who are at risk of drifting into gang life - obviously this is more likely to be the case if you live somewhere where gangs are an issue.

Where I used to live there were schemes such as boxing/sports clubs which would specifically engage with kids that were going down the same path as your son. The people that ran them were often ex-police or army and were very good at "engaging" with the kids who were headed down this path and they would be very honest about the potential consequences of getting involved.

Obviously parents are just "boring old farts" who have no idea what it is like to be an adolescent and they aren't going to take much notice of you/yourDH as they are too busy being "cool", but sometimes just having someone else pointing out, for example, that certain convictions would mean that they could never travel to the US can focus their minds a bit more.

I hope that you can find the right sort of guidance for your son.

@Mistymonday

I note you ruled out ADHD because he’s smart. I did well at school and went to Oxbridge yet was still diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. Many people with ADHD are smart and even successful.

Yes OP, I didn’t put this in my original post but I went to top universities as well. From your username I can guess you are Irish - I went to Trinity and have just completed a masters.

ADHD doesn’t mean you are not capable academically.

I would be very worried too op.

It will soon be the christmas holidays, so no need to have any tech and you can keep him at home. I would probably arrange some activities with his old friends, and supervised by you (from a distance) Personally I would be moving heaven and earth to keep him away from the gang, he is only 13 and very early days. He does not go anywhere for instance unless you are dropping him/picking him up/there in person.

Speak to the school and outline the issues and ask for their support with teams and chats for next term. It is their responsibility to ensure it is safe for children to use.

Talk to him about what a prison looks like, how easy it is to be arrested, arson is a serious crime. Engage him properly, ask him why he likes them - what does he think will happen in two years from now.

They targeted and threatened a girl in his class is extremely worrying op.

I assume from your name and the fact that your son turns 13 soon you are in Ireland. What happened to his friends from primary - are they even in the same school? It's quite normal to develop new friendships in secondary but to not be in contact with any of his old group less than a term into secondary seems like a very quick transition? What are they up to?

I second whoever mentioned getting him involved in activities outside of school - sports, music, whatever takes up his time! I would see if you can get him to try a whole bunch of stuff just to keep him occupied, even if he drops it after a term. Unfortunately you probably need to drop him off and pick him up from all these activities too.

Hello OP, my DS did a bit of this when he started secondary. I think it's not uncommon as they move into a much larger social circle. He was being used by this group of boys and he was eventually able to see that but it was a difficult 6 months. We had full access to his phone and he didn't ever hang out with these boys outside school. He was never asked to so that made life easier. He is on the spectrum but high functioning and I think it was about trying to fit in.
I suppose, what I'm trying to say is, it can come good with input and support from you. Is there a campus police officer who could have a word with your boy? Good luck, I remember being so anxious about it all. The Parent's evening that I attended when he was in S1 was the worst of my life!

Not saying you shouldn't worry about potential "gang" stuff, but a lot of the stuff you've mentioned is fairly common for young preteens and teens, isn't it? Swearing, doing stupid things with fire, in my youth it was actual smoking, so at least yours are only vaping!

Not saying gang stuff isn't a concern, but the things you've actually cited are fairly normal and they usually grow out of it quite quickly if they've got a good home life.

Hi OP

I just want to empathasise. This happened to one of my brothers and unfortunately nothing that was tried worked and he ended up leaving school with mostly failed GCSEs. He then spent a few years bumming around from job to job getting in trouble. However, things changed when he saw that his old (nice) school friends that he had ditched for the 'gang' had good jobs, nice rented homes and lovely partners when he hit mid 20s+. This prompted him to go back to get an education and a long time later, he changed it all around.

What didn't work in our family - being too understanding and empathic and essential lenient. No one came down hard on him and instead tried to support him to make better choices himself. He couldn't and didn't. The 'gang' were too powerful.

I wonder if at this stage he hasn't known them that long so if he isn't allowed to see them and you only facilitate friendships with his old friends, will it fizzle out? Will they get bored of him not being allowed to join in after school and weekends? Can you get him involved in activities that only the old (or different) friends attend?

There seem to be lots of good suggestions already. Similar to those saying "get him involved in a very busy hobby", I wonder about giving him something to do that will challenge him and indeed involve a certain degree of safe risk-taking - rock climbing sprang to mind for example.

There are definitely no leaning disorders - he is very smart

You need to look more into neurodiversity. Autism and ADD/ADHD and I don't doubt several other conditions are not negated by the level of intelligence someone has.

he has an iPad for school all his schoolwork is done on it, they use 'teams' to find out about homework etc. so we can't take that off him
I agree with MitziK
Take it off him and supervise his every interaction on it.

Yeah I could have written a post like yours...except my lad was 14/15 by the time the nonsense started. He had done well in school, never given us any real bother...but he chose the company of a bunch of don’t-give-a-fuckers and went wild for the next four years. He blew his education, got sacked from a well paid part time job, disappeared periodically, stole from us and lied and lied and lied. It was a very tough time to stomach. I had had high hopes for him, saw a bright future...and it all went to complete shit.
He’s 19 now and truthfully, although he has grown up a lot and things have got much better, he’s still paying the price for his poor choices. He can’t find a job, his big mates are no longer his mates, he’s doing entry level stuff at college, has no money to speak of and unlike other lads his age, is not learning to drive. He can’t afford it and given the amount of money he stole from us, we’re not paying for it either. He’ll be taking the bus for some time yet.

There was nothing...nothing we could have done or said to discourage him from any of the stupid stuff he did. He was determined to do it.
He regrets it now of course but regret doesn’t turn back the clock or wipe the slate clean. He’s working his way up the hard way now, when it might have been much easier with a few exam results and a scrap of common bloody sense.

Your lad is young to be carrying on like he is...but that might mean he’s over it sooner too...and he WILL get over it.

Good luck.