We took our eye off the ball and now DS is...

[DustinTheTurkey]

I don't even know what he is. Or who. He's not even a teenager yet and I probably shouldn't have posted on this board, but he's just a few months off 13 so hopefully someone here will have some advice.

He's smart, popular and has always been just fine, no real problems at all. He started secondary school in September and it seems to have just spiralled from there. I hate the phrase "he's fallen in with a bad crowd" but that's exactly what's happened and we had no idea. He had a small group of friends all through primary school. We knew them and their parents and all was good. He got a phone for his 12th birthday and we have family sharing on it, only age-appropriate apps, regular checks by us etc. In the last few months we've noticed he's so moody, doesn't want to spend any time with us, often cheeky mumbling under his breath that sort of thing. Ususal hormone stuff we thought. He's not allowed out mid week, but on weekends we'd allowed him to go to the local skatepark and out and about on his bike with his pals. A few months ago I allowed him to have an Instagram account and I follow it. Pics and videos of him doing wheelies and jumps on the bike, that sort of thing. But he'd created a new instagram account so I was stupidly following the sanitised one.

Turns out he's now part of what seems like (or they act like) a gang. We don't know any of these boys, but we've been given a heads-up on a few of them and they're trouble. And now he is too. He's been vaping, hanging around an underpass with fires lighting, setting fire to deodorant cans (that he has stolen from DH bathroom!) We've seen videos of them doing this, heard repulsive language and seen photos of them with their stupid 'gang' hand gestures. He had told us he was out with his 'old' friends but he wasn't, he's basically ditched them for this new lot and seems to be totally infatuated with them.

We don't know what to do to get him back on track. We've removed his phone and made him delete his social media accounts. He's grounded for the next few weeks. But we've no idea how to handle this going forward. We don't want to keep him under house arrest but we know we can't trust him. He doesn't seem to be able to tell one word of truth! And we know that the draw back to these boys is so strong that if we give him any chance to meet them he will.

Has anyone else managed to get their boy back on the right path? Any suggestions or words of wisdom? We are beside ourselves with worry and so full of shame and guilt that we let this happen

And yes on iPads you can block websites, apps etc.
You could literally have it so only Microsoft teams will open.

I would email his tutor and just say you are concerned he is going down a bad path and you are not sure what to do as it seems to be from his new group of friends. The teachers may then try and sit him away from these particular boys and then he might make friends with different people instead.

One thing that I have learnt is that sometimes when people hang around with these types it gets to a point where they don't actually want to hang around with them but are worried about what they will say if they don't so I wouldn't feel guilty about grounding him if he does anything wrong as it gives him some space away from this crowd. But also try not to be too strict as it can push them the other way!

Have you spoken to his school? It might be helpful to get their insight.

I work in a school and you would not believe how many parents think their son is easily led/has fallen in with the wrong crowd,
when in fact their sons are the doing all the leading. I’m not saying this is the case with your son, but what we see in school is rarely what parents see at home. Likewise, some boys who are often in trouble are actually lovely in school. They may be able to advise.

One of my friends’ son had a massive fright at 14 in his “gang” when a real gang from a big city descended on them as one had insulted this gang leader’s sister (you could not make it up!) and they were in their 20s, with knives

One of the kids ran away and called the police

Nobody got hurt

My friend’s DS realised, at 14,he did not really want that life!

you're a fucking legend you took one for the team and didn't grass us up, we owe you man - what 13 year old speaks like that really??

This and the worries about them swearing makes you sound a little naive about high-school life, OP. What 13 year old speaks like that? TONS of them. Thirteen year old boys are all about that bravado.

I have 4 boys now adults. All very different personalities so as you can imagine their teenage years did differ.

However they all knew I had a line in the sand, certain things we could discuss but other things were a firm no, no discussion. They have all said as adults that they were pleased I did this. This is because young boys get drawn into things by peer pressure and sometimes they were glad I stepped in to extract them.

If your DS has got himself into a situation with a real gang of nerdowells, he will have extreme difficulty in extracting himself. Not only from peer pressure from the gang itself, but he will find himself shunned by the boys who give this sort of thing a wide berth and don’t want to be associated with that lifestyle.

It really depends how long this has been going on for, if it is new, you can certainly put firm boundaries in place, there are some good suggestions by previous posters.

One of my mantras in those days was, you can go anywhere you want and do anything you want, as long as you are doing something. It was not allowed to go and hang out on street corners etc.
I spent many years dropping off and picking up from various activities, band practices, gigs, sports team , cinema, sleepovers etc. This involved ferrying other people’s children too as other parents often didn’t do this. I didn’t worry about this, I wanted to be sure my boys were safe.

If the situation has gone beyond the point of no return, I myself would have removed my son from that school and facilitated a new start. Dramatic yes, but that would be the only way to remove him from that sphere and enable him to make new friends with a more healthy lifestyle.

It will be a lot of work in the short term but will save your son from a life of pain.

Just want to point that ADHD is not a learning difficulty 😳🙄

@17days

you're a fucking legend you took one for the team and didn't grass us up, we owe you man - what 13 year old speaks like that really??

This and the worries about them swearing makes you sound a little naive about high-school life, OP. What 13 year old speaks like that? TONS of them. Thirteen year old boys are all about that bravado.

Absolutely.

What 13 year old speaks like that? Most of them.

I changed at 14 to someone my parents didn't recognise.Thankfully I came out the other side at 18 though once I started working.It was the friends I had that influenced me no doubt about it.

I haven't had experience of this but I have had two teenagers, one of whom manages to tread the difficult path of hanging out with the cool kids without getting involved with drugs, smoking or alcohol. He's very bright, so it was never possible to police his use of apps etc past thirteen, he'd always circumvent anything I tried to set up, so I just looked a bit foolish.

I kept communicating with him, and boosted his self confidence about any positive things he did, which I think helped him to feel he could be accepted and still his own man. I asked his opinion first about a lot of things because it can foster the idea of you respecting them first. If he asked my opinion about anything I'd try and be balanced about it. For example porn: it's something that a lot of people watch but it's an unrealistic portrayal of sex and I wouldn't recommend you watch before you have sex with an actual woman because it might spoil that experience.

Also re: asking their opinions on stuff I think it helps them to work out who they are so they have a healthier self esteem and don't need the 'gang' to provide that.

Having said all that, it's not exactly a controlled experiment and he could be the way he is if I hadn't done any of that, so certainly not being smug parent. But it may be worth trying if only to make you feel you can take some control of the situation without being controlling yourself.

I agree @Coronawireless, it is worth considering something like ADHD as a possibility (just a possibility). But as others have said since I started typing this (!) can we clarify that ADHD is not a learning “disorder”, it is a neuro-diversity and can manifest as hyperactivity, impulsiveness or inattentiveness. Though ADHD can lead to academic and behaviour problems it’s not an accurate gauge of ability/intelligence. It has to do with the way the brain uses dopamine and the behaviour @wimhoffbreather describes in their excellent post is what psychiatrists sometimes call ‘edging’; doing risky impulsive things to try and get that hit of dopamine. It’s worth looking at OP, not in attempt to label and categorise but in order to formulate the best approach and better to check things out and be able to cross them off the list.
I say this as someone who wasn’t diagnosed with ADHD until 52! Had a diagnosis been possible back when I was a teen it might have meant that my wild and risky behaviour and my inability to focus and apply myself would not just have been put down to being bad, lazy and stupid. In the end I got a good degree and career but the path there was very bumpy.

I have a 15 yo DS (he doesn’t have ADHD) and he changed from a sunny and studious 11 into a moody and controversial 12 yo and by 13yo on a mission to push every possible boundary and experiment with every vice. I agree with the previous posters like @MichelleBauble who suggest trying to get him to engage with an activity that is managed by people who really understand the chemical shit storm that is being a teen and will interact with him differently from his parents. This might give him a way of channelling some of the teen stuff and it might also dilute some friendships by meeting others. If your DS is anything like mine then it’s important that the suggestion to join some scheme, club, interest group does not come from you! This takes some creativeness on your part, but he probably needs to feel he’s driving it. Perhaps there is another male he values such as an older teen who could interact with him/suggest a scheme or interest? I’ve also found that I’ve had to change the way I respond to my son and act in a fairly controlled and non-emotional way. So with vaping, instead of becoming hysterical and pleading with him to stop (which is my natural inclination frankly), I said to him that I know he does it and I recognise he’s curious but that the studies of the dangers are only now coming out and the clever people are the ones that quit and don’t allow the companies producing these things to convince them vaping is edgy or cool. All said on various car journeys in a Socratic way, asking him his opinion, no lectures. This roundabout way has allowed a channel of communication to stay open by and large and as he approaches 16 these things have lost their appeal on the whole. I think you’re entering a period of parenting where keeping a watchful eye, holding back and choosing your battles is required whilst trying to distract him with engagement in activities as above with strong role models, and all the while letting him know you’re there and that he’s loved. He will roll his eyes and may tell you he doesn’t feel the same but it all goes in. Anyway, that’s more or less how we’ve stumbled through the teen thing. It’s not easy. You might find this book relevant www.amazon.co.uk/Get-Out-Life-bestselling-teenagers/dp/1781253315/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=drive+me+into+town&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1607539903&sr=8-2

Sorry about the lack of paragraphs^

@DustinTheTurkey
I could have almost written your post a year ago, we are now 11 months down the line and hopefully coming out the other side now
Remove phone and do not let him have contact outside school with these kids, keep him in or keep him busy with sport etc.
Too much to go into but pm me if you want

Wow thank you all so much for replying I wasn't expecting it.

I'm on my phone now (in my bedroom so as not to set a bad example to DS!) so apologies I can't reply individually but to one of the first posters please don't think you haven't helped, I was just answering the points you raised but you certainly have given ideas to consider.

We are indeed in Ireland so the services available are not like what you have in the UK. We're in a town, not a city. The sort of town where everyone knows everyone (unfortunately). Local school options are limited and a few of the boys go to other schools around so not much point moving schools here. Some positives - he does well in school even with little effort. When we were in the school on Monday the principal said she's only ever heard his name mentioned for good reasons (her exact words) that he's always friendly and polite. In fact a mum messaged me recently to say he had been particularly kind to a boy in the class who was upset about something and her daughter and my son helped this boy. He's never been in trouble before. So we feel right now there's hope, if we take serious action now we can turn it around 🤞🏻
DH and I are totally on the same page with this thank god. Right how he's grounded. No going anywhere and no technology. DH is working from home so thankfully is able to drop and collect DS from school. He's not happy about this but at the same time he's accepting it as he seems to know we mean business.
I'm so glad to hear so many of you suggesting a structured outlet for his energy - this is exactly what DH and I discussed since this happened. DS is good at soccer, swimming and athletics. Unfortunately the soccer and swimming has pretty much stopped due to covid and he doesn't want to continue athletics. He's hardly trained and has no matches at all. He had taken up golf too but that's stopped as well 🙄 Covid definitely hasn't helped the situation. But we both agree there must be something else he could get into that would channel his energy and be the distraction that he needs. So this is something we're going to look into over the coming weeks. It's not great timing with Christmas coming up but for now he's grounded anyway and we want him to feel the pain of that before he starts in on any new activities etc.
A lot of his primary school pals are in his new school but none in his actual class. He is incredibly sociable though so I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. He just seems to have been so impressed with the antics of these other lads.
Someone asked about the term "gang" and to be honest it's probably not the correct term to use. We're a mid-sized town in Ireland, fairly affluent (obviously that's a generalisation) and no real social problems. Also they are all mostly 12/13 I don't think any of them is older than that and it's more like they want to think they have a gang if that makes sense? Really they seem to be just a gang of eejits doing stupid stuff. When DS was denying the vaping I told him I'd march him to the GP the following morning and have him tested. Told him he just needed to breathe into a machine and the Dr could tell me within minutes what he's got in his lungs in the past 2 weeks. He believed me! And I found messages he sent to warn his pals that this was going to happen. So I think he's naive and we can work that in our favour.
I'm so sorry if I offended anyone with my lack of understanding about ADHD and learning issues etc. It's just that he's done well in school all along and it's never been flagged as an issue but certainly I'll look into it more now just in case.
Sorry for such a long response but it's been so helpful to hear other people's comments as it's not something we want to talk about with anyone in real life. Thank you all so much. Fingers crossed we can turn this around now.

I have come to the personal conclusion that teens fall into 3 groups. The “keep to the rules and please my parents ones”, the “I’ll do a few bad things but never cross the extreme lines” and the “I don’t care about school and what my parents think only being accepted by a group of kids” and get themselves in Trouble.

I have one from the first and one from the last group. However the one from the last group and hair turned 16 and is edging towards the middle category.
2 years ago he only grunted and caused stress.

Thai will pass - he will come back to you be be lovely but you may have more bumps along the way. We tried to reason and talk to him instead of imposing massive punishments. We wanted him to reason and understand but it takes time and the hormones needs to settle first.

And the more challenging one does babe ADHD.

have ADHD

I second @DreamingofaShiteChristmas's recommendation for Air Cadets - my DS goes and it has been absolutely brilliant for him. They strike just the right balance between discipline and excitement, with flying an actual plane as an incentive. If it's something you think he'd engage with, it's well worth looking into.

My DS also does a fairly niche sport which has brought him a friendship group that's entirely separate from school, which has been worth the absolute world when things at school aren't going well for him.

Honestly op I think I would change schools if you can. Is it possible to completely remove him from the situation? I would be keeping him completely apart from all the boys. They sound of awful.

It sounds like this is your oldest child, OP.
Do you have any “cool” older boy cousins you and he both like who can tell you parents about the things he could have been up to (Internet shenanigans and bad company activities) and then gently find out from DS how far it’s gone?
It sounds like he’s taken a few bold steps too far.

Just for context, at 12 DD went through a very scary time of not working, hanging out with friends who weren’t interested in doing their best and school became a very stressful environment. Fortunately her brother is 7.5 years older and was able to give her some welcome, non dramatic, advice. It was a crisis, but she’s got herself out of it and is now doing very well academically and socially, in spite of COVID!

Yes he's our eldest and we probably are a bit green when it comes to what's now normal behaviour for teenagers. I was a well behaved and obedient girl so this is all new to me! DH says he was up to all sorts when he was a teen, but we're both late 40s so it's a whole different world now to what we knew.

He's the eldest cousin in the family so we'll have to look further for a younger adult male role model. But it's a good idea.