We took our eye off the ball and now DS is...

[DustinTheTurkey]

I don't even know what he is. Or who. He's not even a teenager yet and I probably shouldn't have posted on this board, but he's just a few months off 13 so hopefully someone here will have some advice.

He's smart, popular and has always been just fine, no real problems at all. He started secondary school in September and it seems to have just spiralled from there. I hate the phrase "he's fallen in with a bad crowd" but that's exactly what's happened and we had no idea. He had a small group of friends all through primary school. We knew them and their parents and all was good. He got a phone for his 12th birthday and we have family sharing on it, only age-appropriate apps, regular checks by us etc. In the last few months we've noticed he's so moody, doesn't want to spend any time with us, often cheeky mumbling under his breath that sort of thing. Ususal hormone stuff we thought. He's not allowed out mid week, but on weekends we'd allowed him to go to the local skatepark and out and about on his bike with his pals. A few months ago I allowed him to have an Instagram account and I follow it. Pics and videos of him doing wheelies and jumps on the bike, that sort of thing. But he'd created a new instagram account so I was stupidly following the sanitised one.

Turns out he's now part of what seems like (or they act like) a gang. We don't know any of these boys, but we've been given a heads-up on a few of them and they're trouble. And now he is too. He's been vaping, hanging around an underpass with fires lighting, setting fire to deodorant cans (that he has stolen from DH bathroom!) We've seen videos of them doing this, heard repulsive language and seen photos of them with their stupid 'gang' hand gestures. He had told us he was out with his 'old' friends but he wasn't, he's basically ditched them for this new lot and seems to be totally infatuated with them.

We don't know what to do to get him back on track. We've removed his phone and made him delete his social media accounts. He's grounded for the next few weeks. But we've no idea how to handle this going forward. We don't want to keep him under house arrest but we know we can't trust him. He doesn't seem to be able to tell one word of truth! And we know that the draw back to these boys is so strong that if we give him any chance to meet them he will.

Has anyone else managed to get their boy back on the right path? Any suggestions or words of wisdom? We are beside ourselves with worry and so full of shame and guilt that we let this happen

Risk taking And rule breaking are normal behaviours In teenagers.

I think you're overreacting a bit - it just sounds like normal teenage stuff.. I felt a bit like this when my ds left primary and made friends with some kids who weren't who I would have chosen to be his friends. Why not see if he can invite them home so at least they are under your roof and you can try and keep some sort of eye on them?

''Similar happened to the family friends of DSil. They live in the US but one of the sons got involved with a bad group. When his parents found out, they arranged for a talking to by the police, no phone, internet for school but only when parent present. He was taken to and from school and to any after school sports. He was grounded after school and weekends. He was expected to achieve A’s on his report card and gradually he was allowed some freedom back.

It took months but it paid off. The son is now at a good US college with my nephew.''Similar happened to the family friends of DSil. They live in the US but one of the sons got involved with a bad group. When his parents found out, they arranged for a talking to by the police, no phone, internet for school but only when parent present. He was taken to and from school and to any after school sports. He was grounded after school and weekends. He was expected to achieve A’s on his report card and gradually he was allowed some freedom back.

It took months but it paid off. The son is now at a good US college with my nephew.'

This is awful.

Any chance you could change schools?
We sent ours privately to avoid this problem. Worked beautifully.

Are kids in private schools perfectly behaved then because that’s not my experience.

I know you said about him being sneaky going on instagram etc whilst using the ipad for schoolwork but you can ban access to these very easily.
Also, I would say a lot of what you've described is typical teen things when you ask who talks like that with swearing. A lot of kids do and younger than 12 years old.

'we sent ours privately to avoid this problem'

Such naivety

Not saying you shouldn't be worried but pushing boundaries and trying to fit in with peers in sometimes stupid ways is pretty common.

Member - why awful? His parents had lost their trust in him, his behaviour was affecting his siblings and he was failing classes in school.
His parents invested additional time with him and it paid off before he got to the stage of getting into trouble with the police and leaving school without graduating.

Technically you aren't overreacting now because some poor young girl is being bullied for something she didn't do... Your son done it for being a brat, he wants to take responsibility for his actions, wants to be a adult and vape then he needs to take responsibility as an adult. Is there no hobbies he can do that will take him away from that lot?

This may be a long shot, but there is a saying that goes, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach." Cook for him the meals that he loved when he was young, use them as bribes to stay at home, and speak to you honestly. Make the meals large, so that he is too tired after the meal to go out. If you did not cook savory meals when he was young, learn to do so now. This worked a treat on my 19-year-old, who has had a similar upbringing to your young man and is now reading Maths in one or our premier universities...

Of course risk taking behaviour happens in all schools but private have the advantage of doing longer days and often after school activities are laid on so the kids arent out roaming the streets at 3pm. My son had a long journey and a longer day and while he had his stupid moments he had far less opportunity to get into trouble and was often too tired to bother.

Are we talking about a gang as in a proper gang with grown men, older teens, drug dealing, knives etc or do you mean a gang as in a group of young teens hanging abiut because the two things are very different.
Pretty much all young teen boys talk like they are out of some awful cheesy American gang movie but its mostly harmless. Did you not hang around behind bus shelters smoking etc when you were a teen? I'm not saying let him fo whatever the hell he likes but just don't panic. I did lots of drinking in the park, setting aerosols on fire when I was a teen as did my friends we are all very boring responsible grown ups now.

Friend's DS was starting to act up in a similar way - not so much the 'gang' thing but generally cocky, obnoxious and sneaky behaviour. He is also very sporty - football and swimming. She managed to get him involved in coaching/refereeing/supervising the much younger kids. I wouldn't say it changed things around 100% but it definitely helped a lot. The adult coaches gave him a lot of trust and responsibility (knowing full well what was going on with his behaviour) and the kids really looked up to him. And he revelled in all of it. Loved being a role model for the little kids. Hanging around the town vaping and generally behaving like an arse is not such a good look when you bump into one of your cute 6yo footballer/swimmer trainees...and their parents!

I know all this sports stuff is hampered by Covid but just putting it out there as another idea.

@Member869894

'we sent ours privately to avoid this problem'

Such naivety

Agree! In my experience private school kids have more money to get in to trouble (i.e. buy drugs) with, and parental negligence does not get picked up in the same way by services, who largely ignore rich families because all basic needs are met

You could have been writing about my son at that age. At 13 I found lighters, lighter fuel, vapes in his room. He went out with a crowd who lit fires in woodlands. I know he tried smoking.
Now at this point I'm supposed to tell you what I did and what worked. Its difficult because I don't know if it was anything I did ( I tried to have strong boundaries but that wasn't always well received). In all honesty I think he got scared of some of the stuff they were up to. He doesn't hang around with that crowd any more and is now a real homebody. He attends college regularly and is mostly delightful. I guess he just grew up a bit. There is hope. Its not always the path to ruin.

I’m gently optimistic that my ds is coming out of this phase of his life. It will pass but it’s a nightmare when you’re in it. My ds never fell into the wrong crowd, they were all lovely boys but made stupid, reckless and harmful decisions. He hit rock bottom, before emerging out the other side, including being suspended from school for possession of class a drugs, he was mugged, beaten up (& filmed) a few times. Eventually taken to hospital by ambulance and police for trying to jump out of his window from mixing drugs and alcohol. After trying a number of different therapies, he was helped by camhs in the end. I tried everything before. They have to be ready and they have to want to change. I knew it wasn’t my fault and it isn’t your fault either. Check your ds for drugs. I wouldn’t ban his phone or take those privileges away, even the police advised against doing that. You want your ds to know he can come to you. Set boundaries but don’t be too over bearing as it won’t work.

I’ve been through this and believe me I am not and have never been a permissive parent.

My DS was 11 when he went to secondary school. I’d never had a moment of trouble from him until that moment.

Within two weeks of starting he was involved in a fight. When I received the call I honestly thought they had mixed him up with someone else.

What followed was four years of hell on earth. I won’t bore you with the details but he was self harming (cutting), fighting, smoking, drinking, smoking weed, damaging property, swearing, having sex, stealing. You name it and he did it.

I tried everything. Grounding, taking away his stuff, removing his access to tech, shouting, talking to him - nothing worked.

He had numerous doctors appointments, referrals to CAMHS and I was told he was just badly behaved.

I finally managed to get him on a waiting list to see a clinical psychologist as someone who saw him at an emergency CAMHS meeting thought he showed traits of ASD.

Anyway he was permanently excluded from school in June 2019, and was deemed too volatile to be placed in a PRU. He got a key worker and some tuition at home in maths and English and was sent on vocational courses in small groups.

In December 2019 at 15 years old he was diagnosed with ASD by the two clinical psychologists who saw him. They basically said that he masked at primary school and could do this because the routine was strict and regimented. He simply could not cope with secondary school and reacted really, really badly. He was self medicating with drugs and alcohol and cutting himself because it made him calmer.

He’s 16 now and at college. My god he’s not perfect but he’s almost back to being my son again. He doesn’t go out much now and prefers to stay at home. He still smokes and has the odd beer but , to be honest I thought he’d be in prison by now so I don’t care about the odd bottle of Budweiser. He still gets angry but is more able to manage his emotions.

Don’t assume there is nothing lurking behind this behaviour. All behaviour has a reason.

There is no magic bullet here. I moved my son to a different school. He simply took his behaviour with him. Trust me when I say I was on the edge of a complete mental collapse at times.

I’m sorry I can’t give you any ideas about hobbies etc but sometimes these things just do not work. My son did kickboxing for a while. He was very good at it and it made him even better at fighting. So that was a waste of time. And if I’d suggested cadets or whatever he just wouldn’t have gone. As he was over 6ft tall at 12 I couldn’t have made him go either.

My advice is keep,talking. Don’t lose your temper. Try and talk to him in the car (less confrontational). Keep calm if you can. Shouting at my child simply does not work, so I don’t do it.

My DS repeats back to me things I said to him when he was in trouble all the time. He was listening but he couldn’t do anything with the advice then because he wasn’t in the right place. But, if your son is still in there somewhere, he will be listening at some level to what you are saying.

I know how this feels and it’s terrifying but keep talking to him.You are his mum and he needs you, whether he thinks he’s the big man or not.

Keep talking. At home. Out on a walk. In a pub. In a cafe. Doing a sport. Doing a task together. Be clear you're not going anywhere. Whatever way you can engage with him. Ask him to tell you who he is now. Find things to praise (whilst maintaining clear rules and boundaries). Make sure he knows he's loved and can always come to you, even if he or his friends do something stupid.

Repeat x lots . It's not easy, but it does work. Best wishes.

Don't beat yourself up about it. A friend of mine had a daughter who went majorly off the rails aged 12 /13. Fortunately the Year Head at the time, went ballastic and was "bad cop" and told the parent to play "good cop". Year Head even went as far as getting the police involved and I'll use her real name -Emma got a fright of her life. Mum then played a blinder - door came off the hinges of the bedroom as trust had gone. etc And everything was earnt back. Mum had been through a hard time, Dad had died the year before and the girls and her had struggled to deal with it. Therapy and counselling happened. If you can afford it -I recommend it -they went once a week, one week on her own, next as a family etc. Mum got a family dog and insisted on a dog walk each day with Emma -sometimes not saying anything but anything said on the walk was "amnesty" eg Emma had been smoking etc- Emma was encouraged to discuss what she had done -but no punishment for confessions during walk time and Mum was just a sponge -all ground rules done before-swearing was allowed, grief and tears and confessions allowed - amnesty walk is what she called it -time to offload. She built in "mental bonding" days and went on a city weekend breaks etc -in their case they found an interest together "The Romans" and went off exploring Roman ruins etc -they also got a favourite TV show -I think it was Friends from memory and lots of board games -no chance for Emma to be bored and want a gang to fit in with because she had the attention of her Mum and in her case it worked..

Emma is now a top barrister and VERY nice and has her own family and is very close with her sister and Mum.

I'm not saying you have to do anything of the above. But I'd get rid of gadgets and try bond with him. He clearly has a hole in his life -try and fill it. Find stuff he likes that you can do with him. Get him a hobby with you, he likes cooking -get him baking. He likes cars -get a banger for him to do up. Like with Emma the bonding was done as a family. You don't want him out running without you, no trust right now, but you could go running together. I know Covid is crappy -but chess? engage his brain. Just ideas not a solution and not blame -these things happen.

I was dreadful from about 17 - 20 and then I sorted myself out. My parents didn’t know what they’d done wrong and I just thought they were a drag. I’d had a decent upbringing but I wanted to hang around with the ‘rougher element’ and I did. I had scrapes with the law and it’s very lucky I did not get a criminal record. The highlight was being put in a cell. The thing that really saved me was getting a steady job and moving out of home. Needing to work to pay my rent etc and having some responsibilities. I now don’t know what I was thinking and why I was so attracted to the type of people I was mixing with. Good luck with your son. Hopefully at such a young age you will be able to turn things around.

My brother was a massive heroin addict. Hes not a very successful carpenter, with 2 kids and a lovely partner. It will be ok

ps, I've read most of these replies; Wow what heart-warming resilient mothers you all are, surely with Mothers like you we should now have a warmer more caring world!

@Frenchdressing

He just sounds like a teenager to me. I think people are far too quick to medicalise adolescent behaviour and stick a label on it. (Ex youth worker )

He’s doing stuff loads of kids do. I appreciate you are concerned and want to steer him on the right track though. Lighting aerosols and swearing is pretty mild stuff though In the scheme of things.

There are no easy answers with this. Good boundaries without being overly punitive will help. Try and keep communication open.

@Frenchdressing I totally agree with you about pathologizing normal teenage behaviour, as a parent and as a MH clinician. I mentioned ADHD because it had been mis-categorised up thread as a ‘learning disorder’ rather than a neuro-diversity. It is often missed where it does exist, though more in girls who tend towards the inattentive type which is less distinct. Looking back my ADHD became more pronounced as a teenager though I had always had it. I think because I was academically able no one questioned what else was going on - so the OP struck a cord with me.

That said, looking to apply labels where the only label should be ‘normal teen’ isn’t helpful (but awareness of these things is useful). I think it’s really hard with the first child as there is no road map and usually only vague recall of what it’s like to be a teenager and even then in a different era. Your job will have given you useful perspective and a broad understanding of lots of different teens. I only have understanding of three of them and it turns out that each one was totally different from the other - so OP, don’t feel guilt and shame about your parenting, you sound like you’re trying to adjust and think through your approach for what is best for him and what more can we do as we hit new stages - it’s not an easy job.