We took our eye off the ball and now DS is...

[DustinTheTurkey]

I don't even know what he is. Or who. He's not even a teenager yet and I probably shouldn't have posted on this board, but he's just a few months off 13 so hopefully someone here will have some advice.

He's smart, popular and has always been just fine, no real problems at all. He started secondary school in September and it seems to have just spiralled from there. I hate the phrase "he's fallen in with a bad crowd" but that's exactly what's happened and we had no idea. He had a small group of friends all through primary school. We knew them and their parents and all was good. He got a phone for his 12th birthday and we have family sharing on it, only age-appropriate apps, regular checks by us etc. In the last few months we've noticed he's so moody, doesn't want to spend any time with us, often cheeky mumbling under his breath that sort of thing. Ususal hormone stuff we thought. He's not allowed out mid week, but on weekends we'd allowed him to go to the local skatepark and out and about on his bike with his pals. A few months ago I allowed him to have an Instagram account and I follow it. Pics and videos of him doing wheelies and jumps on the bike, that sort of thing. But he'd created a new instagram account so I was stupidly following the sanitised one.

Turns out he's now part of what seems like (or they act like) a gang. We don't know any of these boys, but we've been given a heads-up on a few of them and they're trouble. And now he is too. He's been vaping, hanging around an underpass with fires lighting, setting fire to deodorant cans (that he has stolen from DH bathroom!) We've seen videos of them doing this, heard repulsive language and seen photos of them with their stupid 'gang' hand gestures. He had told us he was out with his 'old' friends but he wasn't, he's basically ditched them for this new lot and seems to be totally infatuated with them.

We don't know what to do to get him back on track. We've removed his phone and made him delete his social media accounts. He's grounded for the next few weeks. But we've no idea how to handle this going forward. We don't want to keep him under house arrest but we know we can't trust him. He doesn't seem to be able to tell one word of truth! And we know that the draw back to these boys is so strong that if we give him any chance to meet them he will.

Has anyone else managed to get their boy back on the right path? Any suggestions or words of wisdom? We are beside ourselves with worry and so full of shame and guilt that we let this happen

You mentioned his sports. I would look into getting him 1-2-1 pwrsinal training sessions at a gym with a young “cool” trainer that he would possibly be impressed by. Get him training with the PT who will then set him goals to do at home/garden.

There will possibly be outdoor Bootcamp type things for him and you or dad to join? I would give that some consideration.

There are usually 2 types of teenagers, followers and leaders. He's a follower. One of my brothers was and he got into big trouble at school too - all privately educated, so strict school- it came as a shock to my parents, so they reeled him in.
None of us went out in the week at that age - only when we could drive, and by then, you like to think, a little more grown up.
Try and envisage for him, a future on the path he's currently on - asbos, criminal records etc and how it will effect uni. offers, job offers etc.

I also say look into ADHD. It doesn’t have anything to do with how bright someone is but one of the markers is a lack of maturity.

Also has he thought about what he wants to do for a career. Maybe focussing on that and working backwards if he has some idea might help. Although having ADHD might make him not capable of thinking of only one profession.

Definitely look into more formal cycling type lessons or something like that so his time is completely occupied.

Join him in army cadets or air force cadets xx

getaway-n-getsafe.co.uk
This is a hard-hitting and incredibly powerful charity, based in Liverpool, that exists to educate on the dangers of gang membership. They go into schools, but may also have advice they can offer. Gang membership is seen as exciting, rebellious and an opportunity to experience a loyal network of like-minded "mates". For a reality check, maybe watch Little Boy Blue, an ITV production about the real life murder of 11 year old Rhys Jones. It shows just how organised the crime is in these gangs and also highlights the law of Joint Enterprise, where a person doesn't have to be the main offender to be arrested, tried and sentenced; depending on the crime in some cases it can be for life.

@Christmasfairy2020
I think that is a really great suggestion.

Another thing - can you ask the school to move him into the class with his old primary school friends? Explain the situation, and that you want to nip this in the bud. It could well be if his old friends are in a class without him, he's found new friends due to feeling left out of their group.

Are there any activities his old friends do outside of school you could send him along to do too?

Agree it must be hard with covid shutting down so much, but getting him back into playing football in the new year if you can, training for that can make a "gang" feeling.

For as much as you need to stamp down on the bad friendships, help build the good ones back up.

@DustinTheTurkey he sounds like a lovely boy but the poster who said earlier that you don’t know him now has hit the nail on the head. You say he’s the eldest- how many siblings does he have and what ages? Get reconnecting with him- don’t tell him you know who he is- tell him you want to get to know him now- who he is, who he wants to be... what it is he likes about the “gang” and how else he might be able to achieve that with other people. Help him become a critical thinker who makes good choices himself even when he has the option to make bad choices. Just taking things off him doesn’t do that- it just delays it and widens your disconnect and makes him hide more and more.
This is your chance to turn it around but not by lies and deception- why would you disrespect him in that way when you say you’re saddened by HIS lies?

Get literate with how phones work and how teens use them now.

Most kids have false Fb, Insta - figure out how to log out and log in and often the alt will pop up in saved input.

They use Snap and Kik to send unreviewable messages, delete these and keep an eye out.

Make sure he has no secret app files which look like a calculator, photo storage etc but allow you to store secret apps and photos in them behind a password. Google the common ones.

Oh and when my brother was 13 he had his phone removed and replaced with a dumb phone that only allowed texts and calls. He only got an iPhone again two years later. It did sort him out.

My brother is probably the smartest person I know. I come from a middle class very supported background where everything and every opportunity was provided. About 13 he went completely off the rails, he ran away, lived in squat houses in his late teens, got kicked out of school was then sent to private school and never completed it etc etc. Was just generally very bad and my mother was tearing her hair out. In his late thirties was diagnosed with ADHD, is now medicated and a successful father and business owner.

One mistake you are making is using terminology such as, he is easily led, impressed by their antics etc. Sorry talk like that is bollocks.

No, he is part of the issue and a fully fledged member of the ‘gang’ and a willing participant. He needs to own it so don’t use the above to excuse it. It’s as bad as ‘boys will be boys’

But by being tough on him as you are shows how much you care and love him, those parents who aren’t and allowing it to continue, don’t care.

He might not believe that now but he will when he looks back on it when he is older.

I agree with Pictish too. There is not a lot you can do. Just let the eejit as you say, have its way; he does sound really really naive though.

My sister helped with some challenge of values to my daughter, as my daughter respected her. It just took us cool patience and quite a lot of support and bailing out without verbal judgment, during some very traumatic episodes. I did have a silent clock running, and it turned around. If it hadn’t, I would probably reset the clock, I did not want to burn all the bridges. They have to want to come back to you.

Talk to the school and ditch the iPad for ‘homework’ though if you can. PC monitored Teams app etc. Show him the school bullying policy. Talk about bullying, as that is what he is to that girl; he was silent about an innocent - would he be a bit shamed by that?

Skateparks generally come hand in hand with weed and risk taking behaviour - my neighbour’s son is currently hanging out with a ‘gang’ that skates - he is also 13 - he does not use weed but most of the mates do (some a bit older than him) - keep talking, let him out but keep home time consistent and days he is allowed out - I have 3 kids - my oldest was very bright, into BMXing at that age, smoked weed at 15 (much to my dismay) and is now schizophrenic and just about to leave prison for making a huge firework. My 18 yr old daughter dabbled in drugs, hung out with a dodgy crowd and got AAA and is going to study law next year, my youngest (14) is not interested in smoking/drugs and has delightful friends - our children can send us on a rollercoaster - just do your best and keep talking to him xx

Get this book and follow it to the letter:
g.co/kgs/zpGdZr

And, if you can, get him involved in a sport that involves lots of training and competitions.

This is what we did, and it worked.

@FAQs

One mistake you are making is using terminology such as, he is easily led, impressed by their antics etc. Sorry talk like that is bollocks.

No, he is part of the issue and a fully fledged member of the ‘gang’ and a willing participant. He needs to own it so don’t use the above to excuse it. It’s as bad as ‘boys will be boys’

But by being tough on him as you are shows how much you care and love him, those parents who aren’t and allowing it to continue, don’t care.

He might not believe that now but he will when he looks back on it when he is older.

I couldn’t agree with you more.

He’s not ‘in with a bad crowd’, he IS the bad crowd...and by choice. It’s not an issue of him being influenced against his will, it’s a case of him wanting to be there.
That’s how I viewed my son choosing his friends.

Awe bless you, sounds stressful.. have you tried talking to him? I mean actually sitting down alone and being non judgemental.. ? Instead of being mum who is disappointed, be a friend who is willing to listen.. maybe he's going through something and this is his way of letting it out..

I could’ve written your post. My ds is now 15 and the last 2/3 years has been more than hard work. Went to a lovely primary school, never in trouble, good grades, loved his sport, no bother at home etc... year 8 he changed and had got in with a group of friends who smoked/vaped/ smoked weed, stole from shops, bunked lessons etc.. in trouble at school constantly, no bullying but silly behaviour, rudeness, turning up late to class, swearing, the list goes on. It would flare up, we’d go mad, take the phone, ground him, he would calm down for a bit then we’d give the phone back and he’d be allowed to meet his friends for an hour of two at the weekend and it would start again.

Last year was the worst year. Found weed hidden in his room, he’d go out and refuse to come home, we’d be out looking for him, school work just nose dived. I was at the end of my tether. Then lockdown happened and he was forced to spend a huge amount of time at home away from school and friends. My dad died, who he was very close to and he went back to school in September a much different child. Not perfect, but a glimmer of the boy he used to be emerged again and it continues to emerge. There is hope, don’t despair, but don’t ignore things and think they’ll go away.

Things I’ve learnt;
-pick your battles... hugely important or they think you’re always getting at them..
-the need to fit in is huge, peer pressure is huge.. remind them of who they are and how you expect them to behave..
-consequences.. follow through ALWAYS.. this is hard and my son would go mad! Would threaten everything, he’ll run away, he’ll smash his room up! They become very manipulative but rise above it.
-parenting isn’t easy.. you’re not his friend, your his mum and you’re protecting him at times from his own bad decision making and the influence of others.
-you haven’t done anything wrong.. I used to sit wondering where everything had gone wrong, at what point did this happen, did I pick the wrong school, should I have been harder on him when he was younger.

• lots of parents don’t talk about their kids and tell the truth! LOTS of other families are going through very similar.. it’s not just you

Keep talking to him, even when he doesn’t want you to. When he’s not grounded anymore, instead of going out, let his friends come to you! That way you can see them, talk to them.. you get a feel for how they are..

Good luck and please pm me.. the sleepiness nights I’ve had over my son I can’t tell you. But your son IS still there, and he will come back, keep the faith xx

I would be concerned in your position too OP, but I would also make sure you aren't just being a bit naive and over-reacting too much.

He really shouldn't have stolen his dad's deodorant to set fire to it (!) , but if they are doing that it seems to not have occurred to them to shop lift.

The language in the message is totally how some 13 year olds were talking, TWENTY years ago! Yes they were the baaad girls, but it was posturing.

I remember finding my v posh cousins doing stupid 'gang' hand gestures in photos with their friends at a v posh summer camp really offensive when I first saw them on social media, but now they are older and nicer I just find them absolutely hysterical.

Lockdown has been bloody hard for young people, and he doesn't have to keep his old friends now he is at big school. Many people don't and it can be a positive thing.

I'm not trying to be dismissive but a lot of people on here are parents of much younger children than yours (me included) and may not be best equipped to deal with naughty tweenagers. I would think about the comments from people with living experience of this rather than the people suggesting ways to lock him up without access to technology for weeks on end

I’m so sorry to hear this. I’ve had two friends go thru similar with their kids (one boy, one girl).

The mum with the daughter attacked it head on. Moved house, sent the daughter to a small private school, chats with a police officer friend, locked down social media, phones etc. The daughter kicked up a massive fuss, for months and months, (my friend ended up with shingles) but eventually the girl settled down, she is now in nursing school.

The other mum and dad were “cool” parents, is the best way to describe it. Tried to have some chats with the son, but he was already spoiled, parentified and in tight with the “group”. The last I heard, the teen was just out of rehab, from a serious Crystal meth problem, and was a father to two babies.

I don’t have any advice, just sharing what I’ve observed. And wishing you the very best of luck with your son. I hope you can turn things around for you all.

He just sounds like a teenager to me. I think people are far too quick to medicalise adolescent behaviour and stick a label on it. (Ex youth worker )

He’s doing stuff loads of kids do. I appreciate you are concerned and want to steer him on the right track though. Lighting aerosols and swearing is pretty mild stuff though In the scheme of things.

There are no easy answers with this. Good boundaries without being overly punitive will help. Try and keep communication open.

OP, my DS17 was very similar at that age. He got in with a group of boys who weren't even the worst in the school (those were the ones having drinking sessions in Yr8 and were doing coke by Yr10). There was quite a lot of exploding deodorant etc. I'm afraid it's not that unusual for boys of this age to feel they need to prove their manliness in weird ways.
Re the language - don't be shocked, this is also very normal. I think you have to turn a blind eye/ear and let them think they're big if they use these kinds of words among themselves. As long as he speaks respectfully to you and to other adults.
Re the secret accounts: I think this is an inevitable reaction to the fact that you police his accounts so closely. At some point you have to let them have some privacy - this is what growing up is about, breaking away from the family - and it can be painful. It doesn't mean they won't come back. I disagree with those saying 'supervise everything'; you need to talk to him about risks, acceptable online behaviours, etc; and you need to model those things yourselves. Young people have to learn to navigate the online world for themselves, because (as you've discovered) it's incredibly easy for them to find ways around whatever barriers you set up. They will make mistakes, but if your son feels he has to hide everything from you, then he will never come to you when things do go wrong.
I'm not saying my DS is perfect now, but his friendship with the 'bad' group ended at the end of Y8 and he got in with a much much nicer crowd. It was really hard for a few years with him, but we have a good relationship now and he knows he can talk to us about anything, and does.
Good luck OP

Hi Op
I had a feeling you could be a high achieving and have ADHD,
And I was busy checking on Google that was the case but ah I see a couple of Posters have Comfirmed that which is good..

(I really think that encouraging to have a go, take up interests he is curious about or look fun an interesting, be open minded about him exploring new interests,
For e.g team sports or/ndividual sports activities.
Athletics, basket ball team sports, etc
Gymnastics, football,

I think Martial Arts displines he would I think find, fun,good way of exercising,and help to build up his cofindence if its low self cofindence he is desperate to fit it, the gang,for e.g "such taking one for the team,you didn't grass us up"

Its normal for teenagers to rebel part of growing up/independence,
I do get why you are really concerned as he looks like he is starting to go rails.

I would really look at all different kinds of spectrums of behaviours such ADHD, Austim,Asperguers syndrome etc,(as its more common for boys to be diagnosed with these kinds of difference's obvious girls can too.
As it would explain the impulses ness tendancy, your son has got, its one of classic signs, amongst others.

I agree with the Poster,
Who said your son trying "safe risk outdoor activities" such as rock climbing BMX bike rally's, skaterboading etc.

Also think water sports such as swimming /water team sports.

being getting involved in voluntary charity activities for.e.g st John Ambulance /Boy scouts,etc
Does he like Nature/animals?(i wonder if there is charities like that who would be quite happy to have a young, volunteer help out for an hour or so.

Also interests like photograpy would he be into this idea?

Skills like doing Cookery,
Has for a artistic side to himself, creative arts..
There's lots of possibilities out there..

Similar happened to the family friends of DSil. They live in the US but one of the sons got involved with a bad group. When his parents found out, they arranged for a talking to by the police, no phone, internet for school but only when parent present. He was taken to and from school and to any after school sports. He was grounded after school and weekends. He was expected to achieve A’s on his report card and gradually he was allowed some freedom back.

It took months but it paid off. The son is now at a good US college with my nephew.