We took our eye off the ball and now DS is...

[DustinTheTurkey]

I don't even know what he is. Or who. He's not even a teenager yet and I probably shouldn't have posted on this board, but he's just a few months off 13 so hopefully someone here will have some advice.

He's smart, popular and has always been just fine, no real problems at all. He started secondary school in September and it seems to have just spiralled from there. I hate the phrase "he's fallen in with a bad crowd" but that's exactly what's happened and we had no idea. He had a small group of friends all through primary school. We knew them and their parents and all was good. He got a phone for his 12th birthday and we have family sharing on it, only age-appropriate apps, regular checks by us etc. In the last few months we've noticed he's so moody, doesn't want to spend any time with us, often cheeky mumbling under his breath that sort of thing. Ususal hormone stuff we thought. He's not allowed out mid week, but on weekends we'd allowed him to go to the local skatepark and out and about on his bike with his pals. A few months ago I allowed him to have an Instagram account and I follow it. Pics and videos of him doing wheelies and jumps on the bike, that sort of thing. But he'd created a new instagram account so I was stupidly following the sanitised one.

Turns out he's now part of what seems like (or they act like) a gang. We don't know any of these boys, but we've been given a heads-up on a few of them and they're trouble. And now he is too. He's been vaping, hanging around an underpass with fires lighting, setting fire to deodorant cans (that he has stolen from DH bathroom!) We've seen videos of them doing this, heard repulsive language and seen photos of them with their stupid 'gang' hand gestures. He had told us he was out with his 'old' friends but he wasn't, he's basically ditched them for this new lot and seems to be totally infatuated with them.

We don't know what to do to get him back on track. We've removed his phone and made him delete his social media accounts. He's grounded for the next few weeks. But we've no idea how to handle this going forward. We don't want to keep him under house arrest but we know we can't trust him. He doesn't seem to be able to tell one word of truth! And we know that the draw back to these boys is so strong that if we give him any chance to meet them he will.

Has anyone else managed to get their boy back on the right path? Any suggestions or words of wisdom? We are beside ourselves with worry and so full of shame and guilt that we let this happen

@Pythonesque

There seem to be lots of good suggestions already. Similar to those saying "get him involved in a very busy hobby", I wonder about giving him something to do that will challenge him and indeed involve a certain degree of safe risk-taking - rock climbing sprang to mind for example.

Yes, if he see 'mainstream' sports as boring, try something with an edge. Someone suggested boxing upthread, plus there are martial arts, mixed martial arts, kick boxing etc. Or if not swimming, then waterpolo is also time consuming. Mountain biking is also popular.

If nothing else, then give in to as much X-box time as necessary to keep him safe at home where you can see him and monitor who he is hanging out with. Make sure the X-box is in the lounge only, ensure you know who all the friends on X-box are.

All of these advising you to take a hard line, supervise his internet, take things off him, ground him...whatever. Yeah that might work but it probably won’t. He’ll go out when you tell him not to, he’ll access the internet some other way, he’ll lie to you, he’ll carry on as he pleases.

The important thing when your previously good kid goes off the rails is not to regain control but to salvage the relationship so that when all is in the past, he’ll still come to you. Trust me on this.

Get him involved in a busy hobby?
And if he says no?

How is he doing outside of hanging out with this 'gang'? Is he doing OK at school or slacking off to impress his mates.

I know it looks awful, but I do wonder how much of it might be posturing? The behaviours sound unwise but not outright criminal, though I get concern this could be a gateway to worse.

My mate had a brother who rebelled against his background and hung around with a rough crowd during his teens, but TBH even then when you met him you knew he was a good kid really, and he has grown up to have a responsible job and be a caring dad!

There's probably risk in trying to split him up from these kids, it'll only make them more appealing and him more likely to side with them 'against' you and to start keeping more from you. As others have suggested, finding some positive activities so they are not the only thing going on in his life might be a good idea. Better to be there for him and try and coax him towards the right thing rather than banning stuff or people.

Also, having to accept a degree of 'not knowing' him now he's getting older.

The drastic end solution is to move far enough to break the connection with the gang, and plan to live far enough from the school he goes to that his friends live far enough away for him to need lifts. My parents did that one with a sibling with MH issues affecting some really manipulative friends they fell in with, and the now adult sibling feels this saved them. They weren't thrilled at the time, but they were also scared by what was happening and when those friends couldn't just appear on the doorstep or be outside the shops, or hang around the local park with them it helped, they felt a lot safer.

Don’t be afraid to take back some control. He is very young and it is up to you when he goes out and when he doesn’t. In Covid times it is easier to keep young people in. Don’t listen to this thing about everyone is allowed to do X Y and Z. All tees say that and it’s often from a survey of 2 people and just used to pressure you. Remember you are the parent and not the friend. If he’s not able to make wise choices for himself, took e extent you have to limit the areas he has choices over.

And yes, if it’s very worrying do consider moving school or area. It sounds drastic but sometimes a clean break is needed. It might not change things but you need to know you did everything you could to improve things.

When you say a ‘gang’ OP - do you mean an actual inner city gang or do you mean a group of ne’er do well boys?

Neither is good but the former is worse than the latter.

I’d be tempted to send him to a different school before he’s even got started.

Hi OP, it might be worth apologising to him.
Sounds crazy, but if you say something like this:

'I'm really sorry DS, I thought you were mature enough to handle a phone and a bit of freedom to go out, I see now, I misjudged the situation and you are not yet. Therefore we will take your phone and curb your going out for a bit until you're able to handle it without swearing/lying about who you're with/drinking/doing whatever he is doing'

Look up Therapeutic parenting, as it comes from there, it's all about parents taking responsibility for the children until they're able to handle it, and natural consequences rather than punishments. My sister used it on my 15 year old niece who was drinking and she was so floored by the apology and parent taking responsibility that she accepted the consequences of not going out without question as she felt included in the conversation.

Just a suggestion, I only have young children at the moment so it works really well for us. I don't know how I'll handle the teenage years!
Good luck!

www.ahaparenting.com/Ages-stages/teenagers

I think that some of the replies here are from people whose kids haven’t done this btw.

I'm having the same sort of issues with a dd12. And I'm going to go out on a limb here.I think the practical suggestions are great on here, BUT. have you tried, as I have, to dd, trying to actually talk to him, without getting or feeling angry, about how he is really feeling? You know, start by saying how much you love him, how great he is at xyz, that you will love him no matter what, and that you understand his behaviour has to come from a problem of some sort, and it's your job to want to know what that could be, what's happening inside him, what would he find useful for you to do etc...
Just a (very idealistic) suggestion....

I also wonder ADHD/autism. People with ADHD can be academic intelligent too!
Maybe look it up OP? May help you.

ADHD is ringing loud bells with me. There is no correlation with intelligence.

Right I haven’t time to read through all so can only give you the benefit of my experience ...you are right to be worried! ...monitor him 24/7 ...keep him awa6 from this crowd ..as teachers etc will give up on him if they don’t see you trying....my experience is next it will be shoplifting ..then bullying ,then drugs!..our school got the police to scare But eventually it did actually require police involvement ...even as getting older ,getting in with the wrong crowd and eventually committing a crime to be accepted ..and there you have it ..belonging low self esteem and possibly a learning difficulty eg difficulty in concentrating ...other boys ended up being expelled ..the difference was that we did everything...including sending him away to his grandparents for a few day who were wonderfully positive for him ....what I did not have to contend with was the online presence and I am dreading that with my younger ones ...remove the iPad ,make him write everything ..the school will support you when they know why ...I don’t understand the obsession with online homework anyway ...make him do chores etc ...it is not easy ..it will drain you ,exhaust you ,take over your household and test your relationship with your husband but u both MUST ! As he gets older the behaviour is more serious ..get the police to take him in for a warning ..show him the cells ..tell him one whiff of drugs &no job in NHs or travel to USA ...all of it ...we are a large fam8ly ,not perfect but a loving kind family and luckily in the end he decided to follow our values ..he is now a father with a lovely son and his own house and a good boy ...always the actions and consequences issue...make him know that you love him and try to keep channels open ..I was lucky that he had brothers ...good luck ...

I’ve seen this recommended on similar threads.

www.audible.co.uk/pd/How-to-Talk-So-Teens-Will-Listen-and-Listen-So-Teens-Will-Talk-Audiobook/B004EW5JSS?ipRedirectOverride=true&source_code=M2M30DFT1Bk13004272002HN&gclid=CjwKCAiAiML-BRAAEiwAuWVggh0DmuEy4pr2SBuT8XQJ0NMl4ho7rXaSdwLQR0pwzjq5SSU_haDTdBoCxn4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

It’s hard to strike a balance between appropriate discipline and keeping the communication lines open. Hope things work out OP.

@pictish

Get him involved in a busy hobby? And if he says no?

Well, if you pick the right thing, and make the alternative a bit crap (grounded doing homework), he might.

DD’s partner helps with Air Cadets. I’m constantly impressed at how good this is for boys with a bit of excess steam to blow off. They do all kinds of adventure training, target practice, drills, gliding - proper tough and scary stuff, but all SO disciplined. You cannot step a foot out of line as it’s run by some seriously ex military types, and yet the boys love it (it’s not exclusively for boys, but the majority are). Something like this might channel his need for risk and adventure, be seen as a bit cool, and yet instil absolute discipline. You have to be 13 I think, but you said he’s nearly there. Something like this might be the answer.

What if he doesn’t give a shit about adventure training?

My tween boy has ADHD, he is a bright high achiever and doesn't cause issues at school.
He does however love adrenaline based activities and has faulty risk assessment at times.
I'm certainly not saying your DC has any particular issues but I would say that you maybe don't know enough about them to rule them out.

I agree with posters suggesting alternatives for getting an adrenaline kick. Climbing, biking or anything both physical and a little risky. Ideally in a club environment.

And believe me, I went down that route at the beginning of it all too.
He needs a hobby I said.
He already had one thanks...and it was nothing to do with the Cadets. Well...maybe the Space Cadets.

Echoing the comments about neurodiversity. It can be hard to make friendships with ASD and social groups where the rules of engagement are clear and easily copied can be a relief for a child just out of the structured primary environment. I know less about ADD but pp's comments about risk are also interesting. Don't rule it out until you've done more digging.

You could install parental control apps on his iPad and phone to monitor and block use, something like screen time or similar. Then you can define what is used when and for how long and you receive a protocol of all activity, browsing and App usage, independently of whether he deletes the history.

I’d be contacting the school to see if they have someone that can offer advice.
Ultimately though he needs to change school doesn’t he. I know these bad types can be found everywhere but it’s unlikely he’ll fit into that again.

What is attracting him to these boys? The fact they’re boosting his ego? For the wrong reasons?

Does your son have any interest in things like the new consoles? Designer clothing/ trainers etc? Nice girlfriend?

I doubt his buddies will be able to rock them whilst they’re in prison.

He needs to understand that school is a very short period of his life and the things he has in the future all depend on his behaviour now.

He will probably think you’ll bail him out whatever he does, he needs to understand you can’t do this if he’s in prison for behaving like a thug.

So many boys getting stabbed and beaten, he needs to back away from it all.

I agree with Pictish

I have seen this with friends’ kids, and the ones in a mission to “control” their kids fail

I would suggest talking honestly to him, man to man (woman to man), not accusing him of anything but the thing with the girl being threatened by his mate... why be friends with someone who is nasty to someone totally innocent? Ask him about these kids, in an interested open way. What’s so cool about them? What does DS want to be like?

With my teens, now 16/18, I try to understand before I intervene. And ultimately I do not have the illusion I can control them, only communicate with them, love them, support them, listen to them, but they are making their own decisions.

I would talk to your DS about the sort of man he wants to be (is), the sort of people he looks up to. I’d try to pull him close, rather than be disgusted and punitive, if that makes sense.

How is it Adhd if OP says this behaviour started when he began hanging out with gangs at his new high school? His behaviour seems directional related to keeping bad company, nothing here rings alarms with neurodiversity.

What area are u living in is this london ? Or kent - lots of grooming for county lines x