Thread three: holding on to the end of the rope, life in the bunker with the PoTs, where parenting a teen is adversely affecting your mental health

[Pegsinarow]

Thread one here.

Thread two here.

With thanks once more to Billybagpuss for inspiration for the title and to Ticklingcheese and many other parents of teens who are emerging from the worst, or currently going through it, this is a support thread for parents who are being driven to despair by their teens. It is a continuation of two previous threads where many of us clubbed together to exchange experiences, possible strategies and understanding of what can be a very draining, isolating and distressing time for all!

Special thanks also to McMen05 who has kept this thread running smoothly and welcomed and responded to many newcomers and returnees this summer

And thanks again to Godmother for our "club" name: the PoTs!

Several helpful things emerged from the previous threads. First, so many of us are experiencing the same challenges or extraordinarily similar behaviour from our teens, in all sorts of different households and circumstances, that it can't all be down to poor parenting, despite what a tiny fraction of posters tried to tell us! So, whilst acknowledging our own mistakes and less than perfect parenting, and trying to find solutions and expert guidance, we also need to try and ditch the guilt and feelings of failure.

Also , it is evident there isn't as much state help available for teens as required, CAMHS for example is very over-stretched and under-resourced.

It was suggested by some posters that distancing ourselves from the very personal remarks and being slightly less "available" can be helpful and Tarragonsauce said that picking our battles, addressing our own symptoms, keeping in mind (with reference to school non-attendance, exam failure, bf issues) that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and remembering that "this too shall pass" can be helpful strategies.

Daintytoes explained an extremely helpful model of parent-child interaction in thread one at 07/04/2019 23:O6 .

Finally, remember that people don't tend to talk about their tortuous times with their teens because of shame, weariness, bewilderment and fear of being misunderstood or judged, but trust me, you are NOT alone! So last but definitely not least, thank you to each and every contributor to the first and second thread. PoTs tend to arrive on the thread feeling quite raw and demoralised but depite their own distress, they help other parents and it's great to be able to share the angst.

Tin hats on everybody for round three!

_

And finally, here is the original letter posted by BillyBagpuss on the first thread:

Dear Parent:

This is the letter that I wish I could write.

This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make senslee anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.

Love, Your Teenager

_

Thank you
This has made me sob and sob
I am a mother to 5 children
4 grown up
One 17 year old who is giving me hell
So thank you for this

@Shamc hope you are having a better day.
I feel this thread is good to vent.
It's good to read other peoples stories it makes me feel less alone.
I took fa days holiday yesterday and none of them wanted to be in same room all wanted to do their own thing so I just let them get on with it.

First time looking at this thread and it is such a relief that I am not the only one struggling. I have 2 DC. DS 15 is easy, and I know that I am doing ok. DD is nearly 13 and I really really find her hard. She doesn't do anything she is asked without a major row, she is rude etc etc. I feel like she is still a toddler with teenage hormones and rages. She is not a mean child. She feels guilt, too much probably. She is extremely extrovert and I am very introverted so I struggle a lot with what now seem likes attention seeking behaviour. I almost certainly over-parent and get too involved in her messy bedroom, personal hygiene etc. I was completely under parented by my parents who both, in different ways, were emotionally very damaging and my siblings and I live with the consequences even in our forties. I am so scared I am fucking it up like my parents did because it degenerates into massive fights and our previous closeness is being lost. Sometimes I just really don't like her, but I dislike myself even more. I am menopausal, and having been a SAHM now facing consequences when my job is shit and my life choices seem to be have been a bit crap. I know that other people have it worse, which just makes it worse because I am clearly not coping. Please someone tell me it is going to be ok....

I keep dipping in and out of this, it’s both interesting and alarming how our teens can affect us mentally, def the hardest part of parenting IMO, give me a toddler any day.

I was going to start a new thread but thought I’d add to this in case I get a bashing! One of my teens is 18, nearly 19 and she seems to be drinking more and more on nights out, one evening she ended up in A&E as fell down some stairs, thankfully she was ok but didn’t seem to learn from this. She’s still getting completely wasted whenever she goes out - last week she refused to get into a cab with friends and went off with some bloke she barely knows and spent the night with him. I talk and talk to her about the drinking and risky behaviour, she thinks it’s none of my business as she’s an adult. I’m so worried something awful will happen to her.

@BigSandyBalls2015. Nightmare, I’d be worried too, but at the end of the day she is nearly 19. God I was married by then, moved away from home, had found myself a job etc. All you can do is keep letting her know you’re there and whilst you may not be happy, will come if she needs you. Maybe she’s just trying to prove that she can do what she wants and if you keep on at her she’ll do it more. Try just letting her get on with it - a risk I know, but maybe she just needs that. Hopefully nothing awful will happen, I think it’s more common to go off and have one night stands, everything is so temporary nowadays.

Whilst we read about horrid things happening, probably mostly it doesn’t.

Room for another one, please?
I have two DDS. Dd1 is 15, helpful and no trouble. Dd2 is...well, very different. She's always been quiet but she hardly speaks now to us. She comes home, off to her room and comes out for meals. This morning she didn't even say goodbye. Everything just seems so much hard work.
We paid for counseling, as the school suggested, and she has friends there, but she just seems so withdrawn. I realise she's almost a teenager but she never seems happy.
I really don't know what I'm doing wrong.

First time looking at this thread and I suppose I just want to sound off really. I feel like this is just all too much. I have a DS who has just recently decided that I am evil. He speaks to me with contempt and looks like he despises me and I have no idea why other than it's teenage hormones.
When he was younger I always looked at other single mothers who sent the kid to live with there day when a teen and I thought it was awful to give up on them but I actually think I'm nearly there

The constant arguing and disrespect is wearing me down and it's almost as if he is playing me off any other adult family member to get them on his side.

I keep reading through the old thread and hope to find some answers.

I started watching Single Moms Club on Netflix last night. Do watch it if you have the chance, the first half was good. It’s bubblegum for the mind, but still, it’s entertaining.
@maggienolia and @gingerfreckles welcome, you’re not alone in this. We’ll get there.

How is everyone doing for first month of New year. This thread really helped me and I have learned to pick my battles( most of the time ).

We doing ok here, the problem with students though is they are always here it would be nice to have some peace and quiet. How about you @mcmen05 hope your dd is settling down now 💐

@billybagpuss just as dd1 is starting to settle I have dd2 staring shes currently grounded. She will be 15 in February so a bit of a way to go.

Things not great here DS 15 has been excluded this week for smoking weed at lunchtime and coming back all over the place. I think he will be permanently excluded. Worse than this is that his whole life seems to be composed of being on his phone, getting in touch with dodgy people. I cannot get his phone off him, I did briefly, he wrestled it back. His Dad is now more on board realises there is a problem. Really challenging- his attitude is that I just need to leave him alone and stop inteferfering. This thread has helped me too though; I have been better able to detach and realise that maybe I am not a complete failure, he is just as he is. He is incredibly stubborn.

@Fleetheart that sounds so tough, sending you loads off best wishes that things pan out ok. You probably need to bide your time, there will be a time when he needs something and you may be able to trade. In the meantime, try and practise the walking away with dignity in tact option. Good luck.

@mcmen05 sending you its so difficult, I guess I was quite fortunate in that mine didn't both hit the awkward stages at the same time, or maybe as DD2 hit it like a banshee unleashed DD1 started to see the problems I'd been facing. She once borrowed my iPad and this thread was open (I usually keep mn to myself and close it down) she read the first few pages of the first thread and came and gave me a hug. But she's 23 I think had she seen it at 17 it would have been a very different response.

I tell mine I put my problems on Mumsnet and if they want to read mine feel free to they see what I think. Dd2 didn't learn from dd1 mistake of changing arrangements letting phone die when out and walked in darkness by herself.

Hi all - things have been a bit rocky here too, so handholds to all who are struggling too
DDs attendance has been pretty poor since the schools went back. She promised at the weekend she was going to do a full week this week. However, today she was running late and got herself a bit stressed, trying to do hair, full makeup etc. She then demanded I paint her nails! I politely refused and suggested she take a few minutes to calm down and re-prioritise as I had to go to work. She started shouting and crying, saying I would do it if I cared about her MH and her education as she couldn't go to school without having her nails done. I told her I love her and hoped she would make the right choice and go to school (even though she was late), but I had to go to work. I've had so much time off relating to both my MH and DDs I'm lucky to still have a job tbh.

She called me a few times whilst I was driving, but she was still shouting at me and it was too distracting, so I called DHs aunt and asked if she'd call DD and try to calm her down as she's a very positive and calming influence. By the time I got to work I'd had 43 text messages from DD, telling me I obviously don't care about her, she feels like slitting her wrists, she needs me and I'm not acting like a mother etc etc. I spent half an hour in the toilets crying before I could face anyone. Checked my phone again at lunchtime and she'd sent a lovely message apologising and saying she was going into school for the afternoon 🤷‍♀️ My head's all over the place. Hoping for a good night's sleep and a better start tomorrow 🤞

Oh god @Staywithmemyblood I can completely relate to this, its like they get red mist and can not see beyond one little thing, in this case the nails, then when it lifts you get an apology, but in their head thats it, done we should all be back to normal but you spend the next few hours (days, weeks, years) dwelling on it on eggshells that it will kick off again.

Thats why these threads were so helpful to me afterwards, I was so fragile and even though DD was getting better (she's still in bed being a lazy doss about though) I still felt broken and it helped me to detach from the whole thing. You need to try and compartmentalise and practice the walking away with 'please don't speak to me like that' and make no more of it. hugs and for you.

@staywithmemyblood hand hold and hugs to you. Why do they have to turn little things in to such a drama and when they think about them they will probably laugh and they have hurt us so much we can't laugh just silently cry inside.
It's the threating to run away or kill themselves that I find so hard.
I just don't know 100% if it is just in the heat of the moment or would they follow through so we as parents always back down with the fear in our head maybe they would follow through.

I had bought my dd1 books to help her study they arrived on Tuesday and she decided to tidy her room for the whole evening so no study
Wednesday she came in with an attitude what do you want me to study my reply was you downloaded an app to put your timetable to study on what does it tell you to do and it was drama and PE which she isn't doing for a GCSE it's compulsory to keep them active.
I told her she should only have put in the subjects she had an exam in.

The next thing then was can I go out with bf after school on Thursday.
I said as long as you do an hour of study when you come home then it was but I need to wash my hair to go out Friday.
As long as they look ok is all that is a bother to them.

Dd2 is currently grounded so she no better.

Teenagers we love them really.

This thread has been a big help to me, even if I am reading and not always posting.

My Dd16 has had a bad two or three years, diagnosed with anxiety & depression. After two years of seeing a psychologist from CAMHS every week (this finished last summer) she is still on AD's. At one stage she was barely attending lessons, surviving on about 4 hours sleep a night and prone to extreme mood swings.

The hardest thing is hearing your child tell you they have contemplated suicide.

I say this cautiously, but the last few months have seen a change in her (and therefore my) mood. She is still very up and down, but has decided she really wants to go to university and is actually working at school. She just got her mock results and got B's and a C, which is a remarkable turn around.

I have been the 'strong' one for her, but have found it very difficult and took to comfort eating, gaining over two stone (on top of the one I already had!)

I have begun to take myself in hand as it was making me miserable and I want to be able to look forward to the time (in about 18 months time) when it'll just be adults at home during term time 😊

Good luck and virtual hugs to all of you still on the front line. I have found these teen years so hard, but now see glimmers of light at the end of a very long, dark tunnel and hope it will be the same for you all in due course...

Not going so well here. DD has dropped out of college so we're trying to make new plans but she's saying no to all suggestions and being totally unreasonable and vile at times. Aargh!

What a night dd2 sobbed in my arms for about 3 hours about name calling at school. I rang form teacher 2 weeks ago and asked her to do a general talk to class as speaking to child makes it worse. the teacher done it her way spoke to the girl and it has made it worse.
My dd is off now today rang the school this morning left voice mail for teacher to ring me back what do I do next.
The girl and her friends are continually tell my dd to shut up calling her a trany because she has a deep voice and very small up top for her age. I am lost on how to go forward.

Get your points clear in your head, write down the exact issues, what happened and what you'd asked the teacher to do. She will go defensive as she went against your advise so keep very calm, don't rise to it. Allow her a way forward to see what she suggests going forward.

Do you know what you want the school to do? move forms, the girls now do need disciplining for it. Be prepared to take it higher, but stay controlled.

We're with you, deep breath, find your inner calm and good luck @mcmen

@billybagpuss still waiting really don't know what to do.
My dd does not want to move form. She wants the other girl to be moved but this is highly unlikely and another 5 months of this.
I don't know if my dd is over reacting but I never seen her so upset so let her stay at home today.

@mcmen05, this is bullying and they need to treat it as such. You need to make a formal statement and ask for the girl to be moved. They won’t necessarily do this but they have a duty of care to your daughter to ensure she is not bullied like this.

@fleetheart thanks. School form teacher rang me and said she would speak to both girls on Monday and then ring the other girls parents.
But I don't know if this will make a difference the teacher said no one else has made a complaint about the girl but I just care for my daughter and her feelings and mental health.
Dd2 is normally very good at going to school but could not face it today.

It doesn’t matter if she has done it to anyone else. I think you need to involve the head as well. My daughter was bullied in year 2 by one boy. They did move him