Rude, massive DS (14) seems increasingly unparentable - help?

[GlumSunday]

Caveat: he's doing fine at school, he has nice friends, he's active (loads of sport), teachers and friends' parents are glowing about him. So he's not all bad by any stretch. But ...

He is unpleasant company a lot of the time at home. I give him the space he wants most of the time - the family meals I'd like aren't worth pushing for anymore because the atmosphere at the table can be so grim for everyone else. But when we do have to interact, it's more often than not coloured with sarcasm, contempt, disgust. Yesterday he told me to fuck off, and that I'm irrelevant, after I challenged him about an over-the-top Xbox-related rage fit (swearing, shouting, crashing about in his room).

I'm having a tough time with work and a few other stresses at the moment, and don't have rhino-hide skin. The way he talks to me is really starting to get to me.

I have the "Get out of my life but first take me and Alex to town" book - which is the one thing that makes me think this is still (just about) within the realms of normal teen arsehole-ness and he might yet become a lovely young man (we genuinely see glimmers of this).

But I feel I just can't parent him effectively anymore. He's a very very tall rugby player, broadening out, deep voice, side-burns - he started developing at nine, so has looked like a much older teen/young man for a while, and I find this complicates disciplining him. I am probably a bit scared of him, which makes me feel so weak and cross with myself.

He lives with me and parenting is down to me 99% of the time (he sees but never stays with his dad). When I call his dad to get some help with his behaviour, there's usually a suggestion I'm not handling it well enough or should have done this or he'd have done that. What he doesn't appreciate is that (a) he's still stronger than DS and (b) I have a much younger child in the house who I don't want to traumatise by inducing a man-sized tantrum from DS. (Before yesterday, DS last had one about a year ago and it was very stressful for all to be around.)

I've talked to DS and he insists nothing else is bothering him. This just seems to be our dynamic currently - and it saddens me, as we've been close in the past. I find it emotionally exhausting, and I find myself treading on eggshells around him and unable to make him do anything anymore.

Especially if you're on your own with an over-sized teen, how do you deal with endless rudeness? How do you make them get on with homework they're leaving to the last minute (or is it down to them now to mess up and deal with the consequences?)? How do you get them to do a few chores? How do you make them come off phones/consoles and get ready for bed? Or do I just give up now and let him work it out for himself? I don't want to baby him, nor turn my back and withdraw parenting he still needs (even if he doesn't realise it).

I'm finding this stage really, really hard.

Thanks.

Michael Carr Gregg has a book called ‘Prince Boofhead’ about raising teenage boys. He also has ‘Princess Bitchface’ for teenage girls.
I have heard him speak at conferences and he has some great suggestions.

WhoopiGoldbergsCat We listen to podcasts/radio while eating. DS has a quiz in school every fortnight about current affairs so in the run up to that, we listen to the news.

Another Mum with an arsehole teen boy at home mine is a couple of inches taller than me (he's 13) and it's strange to feel intimidated by your own child!

M one appears to have learnt everything from watching Kevin and Perry sketches, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so bloody annoying. Being nice just seems to annoy him so it's quite hard to be warm and affectionate at times.

It's quite soul destroying at times isn't it? I've learnt to totally cool off with mine, don't sweat the small stuff. I encourage and support but ultimately it's on him to do his homework. Same with food, I'll provide healthy meals and encourage him to eat with me and explain why eating a bag of haribo every other night isn't a good idea but if he chooses to do that then do be it.

There are a few things that I don't compromise on, such as no Xbox on week nights, room needs to be tidied every couple of weeks, swearing at people not tolerated but other than that I can't face any more battles.

How do you respond when he tells you to fuck off? Has he ever been violent towards you?

It's really hard, mine has pushed me, squared up to me and said all sorts of horrible things. I find it helps to just think of him as a giant toddler, hyper emotional and irrational.

myskirt I am shocked he has got away with squaring up to you and pushing. That's totally out of orser, those are exactly the things you must challenge. You cannot back down about that. It's at the very heart of everything.
If he pushes you its assault, phone the police, do not ever tolerate this.
How disgusting, he's out of control and is thinking he's got power over you because he's a man, wrong.

He may be irrational, but within safe boundaries.
It seems there are convo's needing to be had here about being safe, and whats illegal!!

This is why I am thinking of respite breaks MySkirt. I think you are really tough and wish I were.

If it ever got to the point that I got pushed, I would feel so hopeless, and we are nearly there. The worst we get at the moment is banging doors and things breaking accidentally on purpose. But to me the soul destroying thing is the verbal vitriol. The tone rather than the content.

I think one has to be careful about the police issue Shriek. Whilst it might be that an assault means that the situation is uncontainable and irrevocable, in which case sure call them, there are cons. Such as (1) the police don't come and you look a twat, (2) they come and then you are automatically referred to social services, can easily lead to removal of child (no bad thing for some children I agree, but things go out of your control as parent, (3) effect on siblings and (4) you lose even more authority by having been seen to ask for help by an agency which actually does not help that much and the child then disrespects you even further, or himself gets into a tit for tat and calls them on you. I'd say it really was a last resort. I think if mine laid a hand on me the first thing would be to insist he goes to formal anger management or else there will be other consequences, move him out with my DH for a period, and keep the dialogue open.

Another single parent of a 14 year old boy here. I feel your pain ladies.

We had 3 very tough months this year when I could not say anything right and he looked at me with hatred.

His older brother left for uni and it was as if someone flicked a switch. He has blossomed having me to himself and having loads of attention. I have taken to treating him as a bit younger and lavishing positive comments on him and the change has been miraculous.

I suspect it is a combination of things (back into school routine, more sport, lots of attention, not being in big brothers shadow) but I am treasuring this good phase. We could be back to the grumpy one again soon!

I think they test the boundaries at this age much like they do as toddlers. After he had calmed down i spoke to my son calmly about his actions and why this was not an acceptable way to behave. I certainly didn't just accept it.

Not sure why you seem to think that I haven't had those conversations shriek

plum stay strong. Underneath it all they are still our babies and they do need us (just in different ways).

Thank you MySkirt, and Downeyhouse that's a great idea. I'm going to have a go at a few more treaty things for us all. Like you I have just the one left in the home thought it was going to be such a doddle, and then the remaining part of their time at home seems wilfully spoiled for nothing. Hm, hot frothy milk calls!

No, that wasn't specifically to you, it was a general 'convo's need to be had'
No DC is going to be immediately whisked away by ss for being called on his pushing. If this is not stopped immediately it starts it can lead to worse. No, its bullying, unless your DS is doing it to everyone, then its an anger management issue. The comments on here that they are charm itself away from DM.

What a relief to read this thread!!! Phew my ds is what you have all described too. I too drive around with routers, xboxes, chargers etc in my car. What WiFi blocker do ppl use? I do it via my internet provider but I used to use an app called WiFi blocker which was brilliant- an instant kill switch- but it has stopped working.

That's disgusting behavior. Really appalling. Take everything off him. Tell him it will stay like that until he learns to behave himself. He has no right to treat anyone like that. I think he is despicable.

I have gone through this and out the other side. Just to say it does end. My ds now in 20s say l was a right pup wasn't l and he is embarrassed now.
I know its difficult but try to start each day fresh so don't do any moods/ not talking etc yourself. Let it go. Every morning greet him with a pleasant greeting no matter what has happened the night before. Same in the evening after school.
Call him on the abuse every time. At least you are flagging it up and he knows he is out of order.
Try and introduce a bit of humour into as many situations as possible. Give him a rub on the shoulders as you go by or tousle his hair ...he will not respond but he needs to associate you with kindness.
Welcome his friends into the house . Chat to them and get to know them.
Pick your battles. Keep a life for yourself meeting friends or going for a run. Don't engage with the lawyer debates. Go to the bathroom if you need to end it and keep saying the same thing eg. I'm sorry your didappointed but you can't go to a party during term time or whatever.
My ds now comes home at weekends and keeps me up late chatting and acts like l am his best friend asking my advice etc. From a guy who thought l was the worst person alive thats improvement.
My dd and ds2 did not go through such extreme reactions but l had learn a bit by then too.
Its very tough going with some.

I just change the wifi password. That way your stroppy toddler teenager comes lumbering into the lounge, sees the console still there and thinks he's won so settles down for a gaming session and then no wifi the look on the face was worth it, the first time he swore at me and so the password wasn't changed back until the next day. I can also change the wifi password remotely if I want to.

june your advice is really good. It's really easy to get into a negative cycle which then becomes difficult to break. It can be so hard to try and start afresh when they've behaved like total arseholes the day before but for low.level behaviour it's definitely the way forward.

I feel that I should add my son is not some big horrible bully. He pushed me once at the beginning of the year and afterwards was very ashamed about what he had done. We talked at length about it and how it was not acceptable, as well as other ways to manage feelings of anger before they become to big to handle and he was very contrite.

I do understand that children who are not on pulled up on this kind of behaviour can become violent adults and that is a terrifying thought. WheN I said pick your battles i didn't mean ignore violent behaviour.

Also, when he squared up to me I think he was just testing the water to see what would happen and how I would react, that only happened a couple of times and not for a while now so I'm hoping he won't go to that again in future as he knows not acceptable.

They are still children and I think it's really important not to lose sight of that, especially when physically they begin to look like adults. I was a complete shite as a teen but can remember feeling so angsty and sad, the responses to the world around me were just a reflection of the inner chaos i was experiencing.

Agree Divas and Dictators is good. The guy who wrote it has run schools for kids excluded from other schools and used his methods in them, so he knows his stuff.
I wouldn't read a book by a guy who called teenaged girls "Princess Bitchface." Really offputting.

Yes I agree with June too. Ended last night staying up a little later than normal just to have a hot milk with him when his dad came home very late. You just have to try to create other bonding experiences.

Shriek I do know whereof I speak regarding police and social services. I am a family lawyer specialising in care proceedings. This year, there has been a massive upspike certainly in London and suburbs, of teens being deemed by the courts to be beyond parental control and removed. It is a bit of an epidemic. I therefore specifically would urge mumsnetters not to involve police unless you really don't mind their being removed or mind your own parenting being crucified. The police have a duty to involve SS immediately once they are in charge of a minor and they also have a duty to protect you if you have laid a complaint against your child. You will therefore find your child at the very least removed from your property on the day or night of your complaint, to spend hours at a police station where, young men find, they can feel unnecessarily frightened by staff. Thereafter a social worker will visit you and start to investigate your parenting, and the starting assumption will be that your child's behaviour has been caused by parental abuse or neglect. You may not have your child immediately removed (unless he wants to go in which case you have then put all the power in his hands to suggest some allegations against you), but you will be unpleasantly grilled - usually by people who don't have children themselves and who are very happy to lord it over parents. You would not believe how many young social workers tell children that they have a right to a phone and adults cannot take it off them. Seriously you have to know that world very well before you would risk subjecting yourself, your child and your family to it. It is absolute hell getting out of that kind of intrusion even where the child has not been removed.

OP - I will have to read this properly later, but I could have written this post. I don't have the giant 14 year old, so don't feel the physical intimidation, however, pretty much everything else you said is happening here in some measure or other. I will try and come back and consider/read advice as we are in this place.

Can he spend more time with his father, give you both a break from each other

I think 13/14 are the worst years - ds has told me to fuck off and that was as bad as it got - for a few months things were on a downward negative trajectory and our relationship was suffering. I changed the way I acted towards him - I took the anger away from my side - removed myself from the room. If he was being rude I told him I did not want him to speak to me like that - I did not engage with until he could speak to me with a pleasant voice, leave the room, do not engage with anger - anger will hang around if you feed it with your anger - so fix your side and that will help calm his down.
Punishments need to be used with care - they can make a bad situation much worse - you need him to co-operate and punishment often just creates more resentment.
When he his more co-operative he will do stuff around the house. And I'd forget forcing him to do homework - that is a thankless task - his exams are for him - ask him what you can do to create a better environment for him to study...put the ball in his court, give him choices - show him that growing up is about making choices and taking responsibility for those choices.

Really like those ideas. I think we will forget this horrible stage later as parents, but they will not forget anger and harshness from us.

I have one of these types. 15. Driving me completely fucking mad.

His 17 yo brother had a couple of moments, but doesn’t have the arrogance of his younger brother. Sporty, confident and his dads favourite child, he simply does not listen to me or respect me.

He wants to do what he wants to do. I find it very hard to control him. He doesn’t do anything out of the ordinary (a bit of drinking on occasion, no drugs, he’s got good mates) but he is so self-centred.

I came on tonight after yet another frustrating evening with my DS 15. I could have written a lot of these posts. I am / was so worried about his overall attitude, he’s sullen rude and seemingly uncaring. He exhibits many of the behaviours you are all describing so I see from this I am not alone, but find it so hard. I was beginning to think he may have a mental health issue as he’s so negative and down on everything. He seems to be outwardly ok in school and with friends, although he doesn’t go out much. I’ve no advice, I don’t think I’m getting it right with him, he’s so far away from me at the moment.

Yes it is such a downer. Another wasted evening over here too with a huge scene. It's so hard as I work from home in the evenings, settling down and compartmentalising one's thoughts elsewhere. Miserable. We need to make sure we really look after ourselves throughout this period.