Rude, massive DS (14) seems increasingly unparentable - help?

[GlumSunday]

Caveat: he's doing fine at school, he has nice friends, he's active (loads of sport), teachers and friends' parents are glowing about him. So he's not all bad by any stretch. But ...

He is unpleasant company a lot of the time at home. I give him the space he wants most of the time - the family meals I'd like aren't worth pushing for anymore because the atmosphere at the table can be so grim for everyone else. But when we do have to interact, it's more often than not coloured with sarcasm, contempt, disgust. Yesterday he told me to fuck off, and that I'm irrelevant, after I challenged him about an over-the-top Xbox-related rage fit (swearing, shouting, crashing about in his room).

I'm having a tough time with work and a few other stresses at the moment, and don't have rhino-hide skin. The way he talks to me is really starting to get to me.

I have the "Get out of my life but first take me and Alex to town" book - which is the one thing that makes me think this is still (just about) within the realms of normal teen arsehole-ness and he might yet become a lovely young man (we genuinely see glimmers of this).

But I feel I just can't parent him effectively anymore. He's a very very tall rugby player, broadening out, deep voice, side-burns - he started developing at nine, so has looked like a much older teen/young man for a while, and I find this complicates disciplining him. I am probably a bit scared of him, which makes me feel so weak and cross with myself.

He lives with me and parenting is down to me 99% of the time (he sees but never stays with his dad). When I call his dad to get some help with his behaviour, there's usually a suggestion I'm not handling it well enough or should have done this or he'd have done that. What he doesn't appreciate is that (a) he's still stronger than DS and (b) I have a much younger child in the house who I don't want to traumatise by inducing a man-sized tantrum from DS. (Before yesterday, DS last had one about a year ago and it was very stressful for all to be around.)

I've talked to DS and he insists nothing else is bothering him. This just seems to be our dynamic currently - and it saddens me, as we've been close in the past. I find it emotionally exhausting, and I find myself treading on eggshells around him and unable to make him do anything anymore.

Especially if you're on your own with an over-sized teen, how do you deal with endless rudeness? How do you make them get on with homework they're leaving to the last minute (or is it down to them now to mess up and deal with the consequences?)? How do you get them to do a few chores? How do you make them come off phones/consoles and get ready for bed? Or do I just give up now and let him work it out for himself? I don't want to baby him, nor turn my back and withdraw parenting he still needs (even if he doesn't realise it).

I'm finding this stage really, really hard.

Thanks.

Boundaries with consequences you are willing and able to enforce. Define what behaviour is ok and not (some parents don't mind a bit of swearing at the Xbox, others do - you are upset at the stomping, swearing and shouting) - be crystal clear so that if a panel of mumsnetters witnessed his behaviour we would all know if he broke your rules or not! Consequences don't need to be massively harsh, but they need to be consistent, and happen every time he breaks the rules. Make them house rules, not just for him, and if possible get him at a good time and involve him in writing them. In your case, consequences could be removal of X box for 1 hour first offence, 12 hours if he doesn't give it up nicely, or for a second offence in 24 hours. Tell him in advance what the consequences are. Good luck! (And don't go mad and remove the Xbox til Christmas, you always need to leave yourself somewhere to go next!)

I'm loving the idea of a panel of Mumsnetters turning up to adjudicate over teen boy rule infringements (thinking of something like Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition).

Imagine many of the Jekyll & Hyde type boys described above would be quaking in their boots if such a thing existed

I’ve a street angel and house devil also. It’s exhausting trying to keep him on the straight and narrow. He has a great life, wants for nothing, is naturally clever with a world of possibilities in front of him. He has such a kind soul but my god he can argue about almost anything these days. He is convinced we are wrong & he is right about EVERYTHING. He cannot understand why he has to be parented ( is that a word ?) & genuinely doesn’t see why he needs to tell us when he leaves the house and where he is going. Having said that, he is very responsible & has never been in trouble. His teachers speak highly of him as does others he meets in day to day life. OP, all we can do is hope it’s a teenage phase that passes eventually. Exhausting and all as that is.

Please let's keep this thread going! It's just saved my sanity. I and DH thought our DS had a psychological disorder but it appears to be relatively normal. What I can't bear is the sheer hate that appears to emanate off DS against me personally. It just does not seem normal. My solutions are to distance myself (massively), use a router to switch off his internet access at bedtime/mealtime/as discipline, and finally if there is procrastination from homework, lateness etc I don't nag him any more (which gets me viciously verbally attacked) but leave the school to give him detentions. He's doing GCSEs this year I would never have thought I would not put in the legwork to chivvy him along with his coursework but I have just sacrificed the need for him to succeed, to the need for him not to abuse me.
Sometimes it gets so bad for me personally that DH and I have even discussed DH taking him away for weekends. He would not want to board. so that is the only way to get any respite. Has anyone tried this and would you think it was an own goal?

Yes I agree Plumbuddle,
Would love an ongoing thread as I'm forever checking the teen section of mumsnet in the hope I'm not the only one going through this.
I too have to deal with some awful things said to me, I choose to ignore them and save the consequences for the big stuff.
I took him to a careers fair a few weeks ago and stopped by the army/navy stalls, as I hoped he might be interested in joining (he could leave home at 16!)
I felt like a terrible parent for even thinking this, but it's just so draining and seemingly never ending.

I terms of coping, I regularly remove the router and take it with me. It’s rather well travelled. He’s an IT genius so has bypassed every other method I’ve tried

Glad I’m not the only one who does this. We were at a family gathering recently. DS was taking so long to get ready that in the end I left him and went with DC2. Someone asked me if DS was still playing on his xbox, I said “doubtful” and showed then the WiFi router in my bag. The things you have to do!

Whoop getting him to go away with DH for the odd weekend sound perfect.

I’d also suggest getting him into something like Explorers or Army/Air Force Cadets. They go away regularly too

Yes - Xbox controllers can easily be locked in glove compartment. My friend even uses her car as a larder to foil the non stop eating.

Yes - Xbox controllers can easily be locked in glove compartment. I came home a couple of weeks ago and DH had every device and controller locked in his car. I don’t think things had been very harmonious that evening

What gets me Ian the nastiness toward siblings!! Ok, he has asd But it is no excuse! And the younger one copies him. Oldest seems to think that anyone who can’t donwhatbhe was able to do at that age (because of his Asd he is VERY ahead academically) is stupid. And sees it as his job to correct everyone. Every explanation I give is argued with like I am speaking to a lawyer. There is no getting through to him! It has got so bad it is affecting the mental health of the youngest (under ten)
Oh and from the middle one? The pure Xbox rage!!!

Yes, it's hard. My elder son (20 now) has ASD and my teen has ADD. I had thought this was the cause but now reading all of this, maybe it is just routine. The relationship between them is rock bottom and my ASD son has even said he does not want to come home in uni vacations to face the teen grump.

This is such a good thread , I'm living this wifi blocker idea!!

Anyone have a recommendation of which one is good ?

My ds is 16 and he's easier than when he was 14 ..its seems such a shame to be wishing their life away but I do find myself looking forward to when he's older.

I'm so happy to read this thread! I'm struggling with my 14 year old too. I think its especially hard if you are on your own with them as you have no one to back you up or laugh it off with.

Meals are the worst for me - so fussy and rude about every single thing I make for him. Also I can't do anything right - he shouts at me if I'm calling him to get up but if I leave him to sleep that's also wrong so I get shouted out again.

This morning, after the usual breakfast moaning, I did get a cuddle and an 'I love you' so there are still glimmers of loveliness.

rabbit mine get to pick one or two teas each week. If they complain about the other meals, they know they’ll either be a. Asked to cook a meal for everyone the next night or b. One of us will cook, but just not for them.

I invested in a Netgear Orbi which is not cheap! but gets rid of all the tp links in bedrooms to make wifi work. With the Orbi comes an app called Disney Circle. In this you can filter your teen's browsing eg you can exclude whatsapp, instagram etc, you can check their history, and even control each device that they use, you can have scheduled off time or at the click of your phone you can switch them off the internet instantly. We used to have to thunder over to the electric meter in the kitchen to throw the hall wall switch, potentially damaging the hardware and also causing a scene with him rushing to beat us to the kitchen cupboard like a battle of raging bulls. Now, we just click the app on our phones for as long as we like. Also it's a good idea to have a fixed off time for bedtime and mealtimes as we have found with ours that he very rapidly became resigned to a machine doing this rather than a person. He used to have a favourite cunning plan which was to argue that only his phone could sound an alarm suitable for his 6am wakeup on school days, no matter how bomb-like the clock alarms we got for him. This was so he could take the phone to bed. So this Orbi saves us a ton of worry about him browsing into the night, because whilst he can use his phone to play non internet games, he can't get the internet or facetime to chat to forum people in the STates. So if he then wakes up late due to fiddling with phone whilst in bed, then the school does the discipline. This works really well for us.

Thanks plum

A bit off topic here, but another recommendation if you have an iphone is you can use the screentime system to key in a secret number that only you know in order to block facetime, whatsapp etc except when they have behaved well. This only works if your teen is docile enough and you've trained them to believe their phone is still in your control. This is one thing I would really advocate strongly to parents of primary children. Set up a culture where there is an expectation that until at least 16 (or whatever age you name, but for us it's the age of consent), you will simply not allow use of screens unless you know all the passwords to all the accounts and they are clear that you could take their screens anytime and check usage. We actually hardly do check much because our sons have relatively harmless browsing patterns. But a mate of mine's boy went off the rails recently and became a drug dealer using snapchat etc. One of the steps in his progression to being this out of control was that there was no assumption on the parents' part that they would monitor his phone. So now, when that's the obvious solution to stop him associating with various undesirables, the horse has bolted and they can't bring that discipline back in.

It may be why some of our sons on this thread are so rude to us -- they may be aware that other young guys these days have a lot more "freedom" so resent us for depriving them of that. They probably feel like prisoners in their own homes.

Age 14 is a psychological milestone of development, lots of challenging and overcoming any sleights or behaviours of the past.
It shouldn't mean boundaries have to slip. Stopping mealtime is tragic and needs reinstating, but reasserting boundaries with consequences, and yes, at this age there will be railling against you. You still are the adult though, otherwise he will think he is.
No money for doing household jobs, he is the same as everyone else. Pocket money is just pocket money, but it can be deducted from for swearing! Insults! And any kind of intimidation.
Do you think he will hit you? Does he shout in your face or anything?

Removal of WiFi/phone/tv if homework not done,yes.
Sticking to boundaries is giving them stability

What does he rely on you for?

Pretty much everything, if you think about it.

An example is washing clothes. If he tells you to fuck off then point blank refuse to wash his clothes. Any of his that are in the basket go back in his room. Hide the washing tablets if he seems inclined to do it himself. Over a few days as he runs out of clothes he'll start to realise that biting the hand that feeds him is bloody stupid.

Refuse to make him any meals, and don't replace any snacks in the kitchen. Once the biscuits are gone, he'll have nada.

No money of any kind.

Removing wifi, as mentioned.

No need to get into a flaming row about it. No shouting or screaming. Just a very calm, considered "I'm not prepared to do anything for you if you can't be civil" until he gets it.

Are you warm and respectful to him?

Switch WiFi off till jobs complete

Talk to the school pastoral team and ask them to talk to him

I don't have much of a problem with phone or xbox usage, it all goes off at 9pm. And one thing I always try and do is mealtimes together, even if it is awkward silence. I really miss the sweet boy he used to be though, and hope he is nice again one day.
Hes such a massive arsehole at times and knows everything!
I keep having to remind myself what I was like at that age, in fact I was a lot worse, just in different ways.

He will come through this phase, but you do have to keep repeating your levelsbof acceptable, as much as it might seem he is determined to do the opposite, he still needs to know you are the same, that your rules don't change because of his bad behaviour and that there are consequences. It is the same as a toddler throwing a tantrum, but now its intimidating. Was your ex intimidating, does he has influence over your DS? As that needs addressing legally if so.