Dressing to "flatter your figure" - or not...

[ArwenUndomniel]

I'm 47 and when I was growing up there were very definite messages about dressing to hide bits of your body that weren't "good". I'm pear-shaped and have always had heavy thighs, and by the standards of the day I didn't have "good legs", so I never wore shorts or short skirts and dresses. I still don't, really, because I find it hard to let go of the notion that showing your legs is reserved for women with coltish figures and slim thighs.

I see younger women wearing pretty much whatever they like regardless of their shape and I feel genuinely envious of them. I'd really like to just throw on a dress that I love even if it doesn't "flatter" my figure! Is there anyone on here of my generation who does that? I do see a lot of posts from women saying they have pear/apple/inverted triangle shapes so they can't wear this, that or the other, so it's clearly not just me, but I'd like hear from people who've managed to let go of the rules and just choose their clothes according to what they love.

I see a few posters blaming the male gaze. It’s such a lazy and erroneous assumption. Unless they are talking about themselves personally.

most women dress for themselves and other women. Not men, they dress to make themselves feel good about themselves. For other women to think they look good, to fit in, to impress. Seldom is it for men, unless trying to attract a mate.

the reason we cover up the bits of ourselves we dislike is because we dislike those bits, we don’t want to see them when we look in the mirror, we don’t want other people to see them.

of course we should wear what we want, but being lazy and saying it’s for the make gaze is very wrong for most women.

Thank you! Ironically the reason I started strength training recently was for function over aesthetics (and as a rejection of all the messages we were fed in the 90s) but I won't deny I'm enjoying watching some definition come in 😊

I feel your pain - have also been called "thunder thighs". Am older than you are.

Right now, I'm wearing short shorts. I am comfy and feel good.

I have a single pair of chino shorts which I bought for a holiday and never wore. I'm gearing myself up to maybe wear them tomorrow...

Do what you want, try to get out of the habit of accepting 'rules' about clothes. I'm in my 60s, I wear shorts, sleeveless tops because I feel happy in them, regardless of anyone else's rules. I'd probably look thinner in straight jeans according to male-gaze-infused wisdom, but I find fashion fun so I'm wearing more flared or baggier jeans at the moment because I want to. I doubt many people are at all interested in what I'm wearing (people are largely focused on themselves) and I'm happy to please myself.

That's a very generous interpretation. My mum also criticises my appearance (while thinking vanity is a moral failing) and I just think it's mental to make a person exist then spend the rest of your life making them feel shit about something they're tbh entirely responsible for. I'm half my dad but she chose to shag him.

I try to ignore my mum on this sort of thing these days. I spent a long time resenting her for making me feel so shit about myself that I've had eating disorders for most of my life, but I'm 47 now and I'm responsible for my own stuff. Her opinions about bodies and weight are simply wrong and I'm trying hard to apply that to myself as much as to anyone else.

Discovering the ‘Kibbe system’ has changed a lot for me, along with having my colours done (online not in person)

Kibbe helps me think holistically about my shape and ‘essence’/vibe and is much more enjoyable and effective than mentally chopping myself into good and bad bits.

Like pp I’ll wear shorts to run in but my legs are not my best feature so I don’t wear short things otherwise. But if I really wanted to, I would. And like another pp I’m doing a lot of strength training atm and it’s changing my body - I’m really pleased - but it’s not going to make my legs longer or my ankles elegant!

To be honest, though, I think older women usually look better in something current than slavishly sticking with things that ‘flatter’, because the latter can be so dated.

By far the most stylish woman I saw out and about yesterday was pretty overweight. She looked cool, stylish, and comfortable. As a 50 yo I think the diet culture of the past has engrained the idea that thin=stylish and it really doesn’t.

Yeah I agree but it's ok to still think it's totally stupid!

I remember mine used to bang on about how I was heavy as a toddler. Not fat, just heavy to pick up. By used to I mean like when. I was in my twenties

It's interesting then that one of the criticisms I get on here of my style of dressing is that I'll never get a man dressed like that.

On the current fisherman's sandals thread their man repellent quality has been commented on.

I wish the whole idea of disliking parts of ourselves didn't exist. At what point do we start thinking this way? Teens? Earlier - if you hear a lot of negative comments about the 'wrong' sort of thighs/arms/stomach.

I’ve a size 18 waist and was in shorts today!

I'm going to take this up, because it's something that has exercised my mind since childhood.

blaming the male gaze. It’s such a lazy and erroneous assumption

In this male-dominated world, everyone channels the male gaze: women included. The 'ideal' woman of our times is noticeably smaller than her male counterparts, in height and volume. She is fragile but fit - toned, with gently defined musculature: strong enough to bear children and to run around after them; not strong enough to hurt a man if she hit him. She's very young, let's say 16-22, so her skin's smooth and taut. She has symmetrical features and all that.

The 'male gaze' measures every woman against this template, it's simply accepted as the beauty standard. Women don't consciously think about it, but unquestioningly judge themselves and other women in terms of approximation to the ideal female body.

we cover up the bits of ourselves we dislike because we dislike those bits

We dislike them for distancing us from the beauty standard. We judge ourselves by it, and we expect that everyone else will do the same.

women dress for themselves and other women. Not men

In the generalised scenario you're describing, women dress to make themselves look as close to the beauty standard as possible: that is to say, to appease the male gaze. The fact that it's channelled and enforced by ourselves and other women is neither here nor there.

of course we should wear what we want

Of course we should! In this scenario, though, 'what we want' is heavily influenced, dictated and proscribed by the standards of men seeking young, unthreatening baby makers.

The fashion world challenges this - at least, some sectors of the business do, and at least since the London street style revolution fifty years ago. When you appreciate clothing as something other than presentation of the body, you can free yourself from fears of template-based judgement. You can view clothes as an art form, a political statement, communication or utility. You can wear them for their own sake or for their functions.

Fashion says 'Wear what inspires you, wear what speaks your thoughts, wear what suits your purpose. Show it off. Above all, wear it like you mean it!' Fuck the male gaze - except when that is your purpose.

I don’t understand your comment. Do you mean this thread,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/style_and_beauty/5532711-are-these-sandals-nice-or-horribly-unfashionable?reply=152496895

it is clearly not something people are saying a lot or being serious about, is it not as you’re nearly 7o and wear them with ankle socks so are getting teased?

I think most of the damage is done in the early years TBH. Either 'well meaning' parents, school bullies or teenage cliques....all when you are at your most impressionable.

I say wear what you want though.
If I see somebody dressed a certain way I might think "wow, she's brave getting her cellulite/bingo wings/varicose veins out" then I either wish I was braver, think good for her or don't think about her at all. I don't grab the nearest pitchfork and attempt to hound her out of town!
I think generally that's really how much most of us don't care!

I'm older and dressing to flatter my figure usually doesn't come into it. Although I'm on the opposite side in that I often wear XL and super baggy things as I like things slouchy and gigantic!

I am fifty, short, 34G, with a tummy of sorts but am dramatically hour glass, and have saggy skin in various places. I swim a few times a week - and I feel far more comfortable and confident in a swimming costume than I do in clothes.
The harsh reality is that most fashion, most of the time, is built for certain body types (and in my forty years of having big boobs, fashion has never been built for me). I'm very much a feminist, but I'm fucked if I'm wearing one of those Calico style tents that are currently en vogue, just to 'stick it to the man'.
Fashion doesn't work for many of us - don't blame yourself for that.

Ageism now is it?

Intetesting topic. I'm mid 50s, tall & size 12.

I hace always loved clothes & always had a very clear sense of my own style even as far back as in my 20s

I love texture - wool, velvet, poplin, silk, leather, linen. I like volume & excellent cut & i'm v fond of a judicious bit of embellishment like beading or embroidery.

I like to nod to shifting trends or styles but don't follow slavishly. I keep clothes for years, decades & often find new ways to wear them again

I have never dressed in the overt 'sexy' manner but have had plenty of interest over the years. My dh loves how i dress.

I admire the attitude lots of women have now to wear whatever they like, i just don"t often like their choices & i imagine they wouldn't like mine.

I wear the clothes that please my gaze, and those are the clothes that fit properly and make me feel good. I don’t follow ‘rules’, I know what I like. That means for instance that because I’ve got quite big boobs I usually prefer a neckline that shows a bit of collarbone. It’s ridiculous to say any figure can wear anything actually, because some styles don’t fit some figures. I couldn’t buy a shift dress and not have it tailored, even if I wanted to, unless I was ok for it to be either straining across the chest or flapping round my hips. Similarly if your hips are bigger compared to your waist, it impacts trousers and many which fit the waist will be straining uncomfortably across the hips and thighs. Okay if you don’t care if your clothes actually fit you I guess. I don’t care if others don’t care, but it doesn’t make them morally or intellectually superior.

janefondue

because I’m 4 foot 11 😂

so tempted to post a picture of my pretty ghastly legs just so you can go ‘yep, I’d cover them up too’

I don't want the thread to turn into a bunfight about the male gaze and snide comments about other people's styles. If you prefer to dress for your shape, that's fine, I'm not trying to have a pop at you, or accuse you of being a tool of the patriarchy or whatever. It's just that I'm tired of doing that and want to try something else for a change. Some people choose clothes based on other considerations and that's ok too - this is Style and Beauty, after all.

I've noticed it on myself. I bought a purple t-shirt I liked the colour of, wore it and it made me look dreadful. I looked really sallow and my under eye dark circles really stood out (and as I put highlighter on them I don't mind them being obvious). So muted dusty purples are not my thing, sadly. I'll wear them as eyeshadow, lipstick or nail polish but not a big chunk of it.

I love that young people wear whatever the heck they like these days

No, I wouldn't @LaurieFairyCake..It's a heatwave! Nobody need cover up anything.

Yeah there are older women who did the work and got over the toxic culture and more rarely ones who never paid it mind in the first place but not all young women are self confident and things are slipping back after the body positive movement. Standards now are in some ways harder than they were back on the day, young women now have social media filters and surgeries, it's harder to feel pretty than back in the day without internet and internet trolls. So women now have all the usual street and school bullies plus online comments and trolling on appearing, they have to be twice as resilient.