🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Is Everyone Having Botox Without Me? 💉

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

December 2019: Time for The Snailies way more reliable and better than the MN recommends annual roundup (yes I'm still bitter about them quoting me in isolation and making me sound like a wanker please don't revoke my special image allowance privileges, MNHQ )

Also: Thread 20 in time for 2020!!! Ahem, where are my presents?

So long as it's matte you can take it all over though I tend to just do the 3 thing and whatever is left on the brush I lightly sweep over cheekbones and up and over the mid of the nose horizontally and down the neck. I use the Perricone no makeup no bronzer bronzer (or called something like that). I think Caroline Barens has a good tutorial on fake tanning with a fake tan guru that launched her own line with brushes (it's £££ but I am kind of curious for the body set) but disregarding that it's fake tan, it's show the basics of where to apply pretty well. I think the tan guru was called something like Amanda Harrington, possibly?

I thought HS only occured where the skin folds, so armpits, groin, under breasts, etc. Client. Are you sure it's not cystic?

@botemp sadly not! I've also had it on my ears, neck... seen some horrible flares in the HS group I'm in people get it on their scalp too
I'm quite lucky with mine as it's fairly low level
Without it ending up in sporners corner it's difficult to describe but having had it since I was 12 I can usually tell which is HS although some still surprise me

That doesn't sound great, it's a real nuisance, hope it calms down soon.

Thanks Bo. So you apply with a brush? There is only one shade of the Perricone?

Yes with a brush (natural fibre kabuki from Kevyn Aucoin) I do a few drops on the face where I want it and then buff it out but you can definitely do fingers, it's the consistency of a serum and doesn't require any special skills to blend seamlessly. I think it's just the one shade, it's not orange at all and you can build it up. I bought mine from allbeauty as it was the cheapest at the time.

Thank you again @botemp, you are very generous with your knowledge.

Any suggestions on the first cleanse balm/oil? It’s a shame the inkey list won’t work for that (that had been my hope) I’ve seen the body shop Camomile balm mentioned several times but I won’t buy anything until you say so!

Can I say what/who LE is? I’m alway up for learning more about skincare and makeup, it’s keeping me going while homeschooling.

Coffee&CakeQueen x

LE is Lisa Eldridge her videos through lockdown have been great, very soothing.

If you can get hold of it the Simple Cleansing oil is a really affordable cleansing oil.

@botemp sorry you did say! It’s now on my list.

Thank you again & I’ll have a look at Lisa Eldeidge

@botemp is this the right one?

Medik8 Crystal Retinaldehyde
www.medik8.com/crystal-retinal.html

It’s my birthday in a few weeks so putting together a wish list, do you think I could (should) add a vit C cream/capsules?! I’ve put all the other products you suggested on it.

@botemp This is my Skincare 0.2 plan - does look better? I’ll introduce the new products as my old ones run out over time.

AM:
Cleanse - cerave hydrating cleaner
Caffeine eye cream - inkey list
Collagen booster - inkey list
Mist - sukin (I like how it feels)
Q10 serum - inkey list (replace with vit c serum When Q10 finishes)
Bakuchiol moisturiser
SPF 50 - biore uv aqua

PM
Cleanse - simple cleansing oil
Cleanse - cerave hydrating cleaner
Mist - sukin (I like how it feels)
Collagen booster - inkey list
Bakuchiol moisture - inkey list
Medik8 crystal retinaldehyde 3 x nights a week
Rosehip oil/ Squalane - inkey list

Thank you again for all your help!

@CakeandCoffeeQueen I also need to track down an oil cleanser. Have you managed to find/order the Simple one?
I’m fairly new to skincare too (About 6 weeks in) I used to just cleanse, moisturise, exfoliate with Dermalogica or No7 AHA resurfacing paste a couple of times per week. I’ve worn SPF on and off for about a year but i’ve stepped it up now to every day.
I have ended up ensuring I cleanse AM and PM, I firstly added Vit C (Timeless brand) in the AM and once I knew I could tolerate it, I introduced Hyaluronic acid in the PM after double cleansing. I can tolerate that well too. (Hada Labo lotion and I apply it to a damp face and mist with Vichy thermal water afterwards) I still exfoliate a few times per week and I just use my No7 AHA resurfacing paste and i’ve ditched Dermalogica. Once No7 runs out i’m going to try the Paula’s Choice AHA weekly treatment.
I’ve also introduced Cerave eye cream and because i’m trying to even out my skin tone a little I introduced Niacinamide last night (I’ve started with a 5% serum and so far so good. Will increase to the Paula’s Choice 10% booster next month and see how I get on with that)
In terms of moisturiser I really like Olay lotions.

@Pupsiecola I used to use Fake bake face tan lotion but since running out I’ve purchased Tan Luxe Hyaluronic serum. Only used it twice and it’s given me a nice glow. I don’t know if it’s supposed to go on in the AM before make up though? Or at night?

Has anyone ever used BYBI Bakuchiol serum? I can’t use Retinol/Tretinoin yet due to TTC and so bought this as an alternative. My question is, how often would you think it would need to be used to see any benefit? Could it go over Hyaluronic acid or Niacinamide serum or would it be best used alone after cleansing, then topped with moisturiser?

On cleansers, I know Caroline Hirons isn't the most favoured here, and it's not cheap, but I have started using plantastic cleansing balm (oil based) and I really love it.

I also use the Kate Somerville goats milk cleanser which I got as a gift a while ago. Also love. But have bought Cerave based on reviews and to try to cut the cost down as that's a lot of money just on cleansers. Might go back to KS in the future though as a really nice product. I have the KS eye balm too, again gifted, not so keen. I've read a lot about the inkey caffeine eye cream so going to try that next.

Cake, yes it's that one from Medik8. Start with either the strength 3 or 6 (probably 6 will be fine) and start using it once a week for one-two weeks then twice a week for two weeks and then to three times a week but if you get irritated with it then drop back down use and extend the adjustment period to three or four weeks. I'd slightly tweak your routine (see below) because of order and just not needing to use so much all at once.

Vitamin C is difficult as the one from Timeless that I recommend most often has a very limited shelf life and you want it as fresh as possible so wouldn't be suitable to buy now for use later but you could ask for a gift card from them instead here so you can buy it when your Coq10 is finished which is probably 2-3 months away. Introduce vitamin c gradually as well but you can start twice a week for two weeks and then move up quicker if you're not irritated by it.

AM:
Cleanse - cerave hydrating cleaner
Collagen booster - inkey list
Mist - sukin (I like how it feels)
Q10 serum - inkey list (replace with vit c serum When Q10 finishes)
Caffeine eye cream - inkey list moved to here
Bakuchiol moisturiser
SPF 50 - biore uv aqua

PM
Cleanse - simple cleansing oil
Cleanse - cerave hydrating cleaner
Mist - sukin (I like how it feels)
Collagen booster - inkey list
Bakuchiol moisture - inkey list
Medik8 crystal retinaldehyde 3 x nights a week (instead of the bakuchiol moisturiser)
Rosehip oil/ Squalane - inkey list -(with summer ahead of us an oil may just be too much, so monitor it, if you wake up with a very oily nose/face just keep them for colder weather, oils have a two year shelf life usually)

Fete, Bakuchiol is a tough one as brands don't seem to mention the percentage they use. I think the Inkey is 1% but whether that is suspected or confirmed by them, I don't know. The limited tests that have been done on it were at using it twice a day at 0.5% and there's no way of knowing whether frequency, strength or both was defining in efficacy. Since the bybi is pretty much straight squalane and an unknown smidge of bakuchiol (but probably around 1%) I'd use it in place of moisturiser in the morning, so last step before SPF, leave a bit of time between those two steps to get it well absorbed. At night, similarly last step, but you may want to layer moisturiser under it. It's impossible to say when or if you'll see benefits from the Bakuchiol, for retinol it's 6 months to see any results and some improvement to be detected in 2-3 months. I'd take that comparison as an optimistic guide for bakuchiol and double it.

Agte, don't get me wrong I do like a 'nice' cleanser and occasionally I'll pick one up (Biologique Recherche Lait U) but it's on your skin for about a minute and then it's down the drain so it's a bit of a waste, not just financially but also in terms of quality ingredients that are unlikely to do anything substantial in that short period of time. As mentioned previously I'm a weirdo that gets excited about sunscreens instead which others will see as a waste, as surely any sunscreen will do which is true to some extent.

Cake, sorry forgot to bold my comment about use of oils in summer.

@botemp that is a very fair point about it going down the drain quickly!!

Reading with interest your comments on Cakes routine as I've never looked at collagen boosters before and wondering if I should do some research. Is it important to use that when using Vit C and A?

No, Cake, already had it, it's just a bunch of peptides for which the evidence (as a group) is woolly but it's highly unlikely to do any harm and could potentially be of use if you can't use actives, definitely not essential. Vitamin A and C on the other hand are THE collagen boosters but don't need to be marketed as such. As an aside, collagen in skincare, aside from being a humectant, is pretty useless, or at least useless for anything to do with our own collagen (replacing/boosting/whatever), there may be some benefits to skin from ingesting hydrolyzed collagen peptides though, evidence is limited as of yet but definitely in the promising category.

@botemp you're a fountain of knowledge! I'll leave it in that case

Hello CakeandCoffeeQueen, hope your new skincare routine goes well. And hello Ilovemydog

For double cleansing in evening (only if I've had on SPF or make up), I do a good wipe with nigellas water (the pink label one - forgotten name. Bio something) and then do a proper cleanse with my Frezyderm. I find this works well for me as a full double cleanse tends to strip my skin and leave it feeling too dry (I'm very sensitive).

So no takers for micro-blading then??!! To be honest thinking of not doing it as apparently you can't get them wet or sweat for 3 days and that's hard as summer started here and very hot plus I exercise a lot.

CGM CHAT: yes Bo, Cailin does seem to have a fairly scientific approach. I also have no interest in trying everything but with all the protein v moisture and the glycerin v no glycerin, I wonder if I am going to inevitably end up trying everything!! I suppose it comes down to lots of experience and being able to observe changes in your hair and pinpoint the reasons why.

Right now am reading about glycerin and dew points/humidity. Seems to be if humidity in extreme end of either spectrum then no glycerin otherwise it's ok.

Rice rinse - because I wasn't mixing the water with a mask, I didn't let it go to stodgy so the rice was fine. We ate it.

How is your hair looking today ClientQ after the chelating?

• micellar water (not nigella water )

@botemp Thanks again. Yes, it’s oil derived Squalene and 1% Bakuchiol apparently. Hoping Squalene doesn’t cause me any issues. Looking at the info on the website, it’s a booster and can be added to other serums/moisturisers.
I did look at the Indeed lab Bakuchiol pads but the reviews weren’t great, apparently the pads dry out very easily.
When using my Hada lotion, could that still go underneath the Bakuchiol in the PM?

Does anyone here use any Olay moisturisers? I use the lotion and have never had any issues, my skin likes it, but am thinking of getting something a little more nourishing from the range for PM? My local Sainsbury’s has a large Olay range. Any recommendations? I want something nourishing, but not likely to clog pores. Anything too rich and I develop milia on my cheeks.

Thank you @botemp you really are amazingly knowledgable... do you work in skincare? How long have you in interested in it? I’m in completely awe of you!

Yes, I'd use the Bakuchiol as the last of the serums, it's oil soluble and there's no pH so there isn't this issue of it being fickle and needing to be the first thing on your face to get the maximum effect out of it. Squalane does seem to come in different forms, sometimes it's heavy and other times it's lighter, you'll just have to try and see. It should layer over HA.

Sorry, not familiar with the Olay range by experience. I tend to find it expensive for what it is, it's one of those setups (where I am anyhow) that it's always on offer but you have to buy multiple things and that always puts me off. Also, a lot of it contains fragrance. Think the three point regenerist (I think that's the name) at the top end of their price range is meant to be good but it is meant for mature skin (which often wrongly assumes everyone is suddenly dry as a prune) but I think they have broadened the range at some point.

cake, no I'm an enthusiast at best and far from qualified for anything regarding skin and my words shouldn't be taken as gospel.

I only got into skincare because I had perfect (slightly sensitive) skin until my mid twenties that I just cleansed with water and occasionally moisturised and then it went to pot overnight (hormones but it took me quite some time to figure that bit out) and I didn't know why and I kept reacting to everything I tried until I came across a vitamin c serum (by accident really, I too was a hapless easy mark once that just bought things that sounded good) and then started reading up on why that was helping and just continued on from there. Could have saved myself a lot of aggravation and disappointment from the start but there wasn't that much information out there at the time, the Vitamin C angle gave me an in into more science backed content.

I'm only here because Pupsie started a thread about skincare ingredients and which ones to look out for and the rest as we say is, history. No one remind me how long ago that first thread was, it seems like just yesterday, don't take that away from me.

@SophieLion it feels a lot better actually, more bouncy and lighter

The Cerave hydrating cleanser is AM and first cleanse PM (followed by Merumaya cleanser PM) Yes or something like Superfacialist Vitamin C cleansing oil (currently £6 for the big bottle, which lasts for ages) followed by the Cerave (gently removed with a wet flannel).

Can I ask what’s wrong with sukin mist? It was recommended on another group so i thought it would be okay! It's water, rose/chamomile extracts and glycerin - a very basic formulation. You could get the Superdrug B Essence for less and it will make more of a difference. It has more moisturising and soothing ingredients. It is an enriched liquid and it really sinks in and does more than a mist. If you'd like a mist than try Superdrug B mist, Vichy Ultra 8 or Clinique Moisture Surge spray, but this is better.

[Put on] Hada Labo lotion and I apply it to a damp face and mist with Vichy thermal water afterwards Wrong way round, apply the Vichy first and then the Hada Labo.

I’ve seen the body shop Camomile balm mentioned several times I think the Merumaya melting balm is much better, especially for spot or redness prone skin. It rinses off easily and cleanly too (in one go), which other ones don't seem to do. The texture is amazing. It's also in a tube, so more hygienic than a pot.