🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Is Everyone Having Botox Without Me? 💉

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

December 2019: Time for The Snailies way more reliable and better than the MN recommends annual roundup (yes I'm still bitter about them quoting me in isolation and making me sound like a wanker please don't revoke my special image allowance privileges, MNHQ )

Also: Thread 20 in time for 2020!!! Ahem, where are my presents?

God I love the Timeless Vit C, it really does give me a healthy glow. Thanks to @botemp for the recommendation.

I did order the Caroline Hirons spring kit 1 as it was such good value and contains HA and Vit C, both of which I introduced with good results. I can tolerate Vit C just fine, so have stepped it up to more frequent use.
The kit contains Oskia Vit C capsules so I’m hoping I enjoy them as much as timeless. Once they run out, i’ll be sticking to Timeless due to the price and efficacy, regardless of how much I enjoy Oskia.

This is my current routine and it seems to be working well (4 weeks in I think)

AM -
Cleanse (Olay)
Timeless Vit C
LRP SPF 50
Moisturise (Olay day lotion)

PM -
Cleanse/double cleanse (Olay)
Cerave eye cream
Mist with Vichy
Hyaluronic acid (Hada labo lotion or Paula’s choice booster)
Mist again
Moisturiser (Olay or Cerave)

Twice a week I use a AHA exfoliant.

I’m tolerating this all very well, so am thinking of introducing my Niacinamide now.
I have a GOW 5% serum and also Paula’s Choice 10% booster. Will start with GOW.

Where would I put this in my PM routine? Can it be used with HA and if so does it go on before? Can it be used after my AHA treatment or best to do on a separate night?

Does anyone enjoy Niacinamide and see the benefits?

Ignore the AM routine part when I said SPF before moisturiser. I used to do that before I found this thread. I now put it on last.

@SophieLion Which colour hat did you get? The white looks lovely but I fear it would get grubby very quickly!

Bo Yes it was using P50 that turned me into a tomato earlier this year - I'd been using it for a few years but always in the evening, alternate days with whatever retinoid I was using. Both that and the Inkey List have gluconolactone and niacinamide - I'm assuming the P50 has a lower pH, due to the additional acetic acid in their formula, hence the irritation. I also got the Inkey Lactic acid to try and that's also very mild. Both that and the PHA are very slightly sting-y but nothing like the P50 (and I only ever used the W and V versions, god know what the original one is like)!!

I have been reading up on/watching dermatologist (American and British) advice on hyaluronic acid and how some are now turning against it.

Here is their argument:
It is plumping rather than hydrating
No long term benefits, but good for dramatic impact
Many HA products are formulated at slightly the wrong PH levels
The naturally occurring HA in our dermis is at the optimum molecular weight and can't currently be replicated by products/their effect
Lower molecular weights HA are inflammatory, our natural HA is anti-inflammatory
Over time, it leads to epidural water loss - causing dehydration and inflammation
Gylcerin is better - hydrating and also is healing for eczema and psoriasis

Advice given - don't use it too much, don't use it in too many products, always seal it with moisturer straight after, use it in humid weather and not when the air is dry, don't use it when your barrier is compromised, it is best for when you have lines/wrinkles, don't use it when it stings.

It's popular here (and presumably effective for fans). My skin prefers glycerin, panthenol and similar ingredients. I do use a HA based gel on feet on occasion though.

Do you like HA?
Have you tried polyglutamic acid? (Which is being touted as the new HA)

Dermatologists not dermatologist

@thisenglishlife Oh this pains me I’ve only discovered HA about a month ago and have really been enjoying it. Was so hoping it would provide some long term benefits. I use Hada Labo and Paula’s choice.

If it works for you, carry on using it 👍🏻

@thisenglishlife It appears to give my skin a healthy sheen/glow. I was just hoping it would give long term hydrating/anti ageing benefits.

No, HA is a bit like a painkiller, it stops telling your brain it's hurting but it doesn't actually do anything about pain, you're still hurting. HA masks that your skin is troubled (either an impaired skin barrier or product abuse that's slowly sending you towards an impaired skin barrier) and does nothing for the root cause and in some situations only exasperates it/worsens the issue. I've been pretty critical of HA for a good long while on here for the exact reasons mentioned by dermatologists. In place I hammer on about the importance of a healthy skin barrier. I'm on the fence about polyglutamic acid, glycerine is still the innocuous humectant of choice for me, fermented ingredients are an alternative but don't suit everyone. No offence, English, I know you post here often but your questions come across a bit like a journo 🤣

Out, I'm not familiar with the brand at all, but I tend to stay away from MLMs (they're illegal over here anyhow).

Thanks for that Tsm

CGM CHAT, Sophie, I had some time spare this afternoon and repurposed an old unused cushion cover and another upcycled flannel pillow case for the interior. It's not finished yet (I have to swap out the woven fabric as it's fraying too much) but it's far enough along for me to try it out in a bit. It's a very snug but perfect fit.

Good analogy @botemp I use a glycerin based essence myself (I used to have very dry and flaky skin, but it has got rid of those issues).

No offence, English, I know you post here often but your questions come across a bit like a journo I'm teacher, I promise! I have been accused of being marketing/brands on other threads. 😂

Wow I didn't realize there were questions over GA. I thought it was the thing to have!! What are possible substitutes? Sorry if that's below, it was a little technical for me :/

Interesting about the HA English I was all set to buy vichy 89 serum as i really got along with the samples. I'm admittedly not looking for long term anti aging effects as I'm still a couple of years off 30 but good to be aware of it.

That makes sense English, usually when someone on MN tries to elicit a group discussion it's a journo or market researcher but it's obviously a pretty common technique in a classroom.

In defence of Vichy Mineral 89, it's not really an HA serum, it contains a miniscule amount of it. As the name reveals, it's 89% thermal water, a good dose of glycerin and other humectants, some preservatives and texture agents. It's more a tall glass of soothing thermal water for skin than anything else.

Agte, glycerin is the simplest and most unproblematic humectant, but there's lots of others but glycerin is cheap and plentiful.

So, Hyaluronic acid basically just makes skin feel nice and soft/temporarily look a little plumper rather than having any long term benefits?

I’m really enjoying the Hada Labo HA lotion, and my CH kit comes with Niod multi molecular Hyaluronic complex so i’ll continue using it for now, but i’ll be aware not to spend too much £ on it if it doesn’t provide any long term benefits.

I’ve been using it pretty much every night. I can’t jump on the tret train yet, so any recommendations for a decent, hydrating, anti ageing serum that could replace the HA eventually?

Cracked open the wet skin miracle jelly. SO much better and I smell of watermelon
I've found I'm switching to shower oils a lot more, shower gel just seems way too drying

Fete, if you focus on keeping your skin barrier healthy and resilient then you don't have a need for an additional hydrating serum. Dehydration is caused by an impaired skin barrier (mostly).
Beyond SPF safeguarding your skin barrier, by not throwing everything at it in hopes that this might be (even) better, is the best investment you can make for your skin. Every dermatologist says the same, less is more. Product overuse is a clear symptom of trying to solve an issue with a new product caused by the last product. Sunk cost fallacy in action.

That's good to know thanks bo I got the chemist to give me a stack of samples so I could trial vichy 89 for a week and found it great. An added moisture boost without the usual breakout moisturing products usually cause. I'm also a sucker for a smoothing effect which it kind of helped with. It took me a long time to accept no matter how nice it felt clinique moisture surge was bad for me

I've been wanting to try the Inkey List caffeine eye serum. I watched a couple of CH's IG lives re her spring kits (no intention of buying of course). In them, over a couple of days, she said the eye serum was now out of stock because they had given her so much stock for the boxes. I bought one with no problem that very day. It arrives today. Just thought it was a bit daft to claim there was no stock left when there actually was.

Out, I think it's handy to think of skincare as existing in different forms, there's actives which are a small handful of ingredients with proven efficacy, then there's a group of proven 'maitenance' ingredients that support skin health, the unsung heroes, if you will. Then there's a (far larger) group that are more like makeup, since they work in the moment. Foundation and concealer cover a multitude of sins and then fade, a lot of skincare ingredients function similarly. It doesn't make them bad, necessarily, they have their place because not everyone will have 'ideal' skin instantly or even on the long term and would like the appearance of it but it's helpful to know what does what because results from group A with product from group C just aren't going to happen, no matter how hard marketeers insist on convincing you otherwise. Thing is, the 'cosmetic' category works far quicker and with 'results' than the other two (acid exfoliators are an outlier though), they require time and patience but that's not an easy thing to market. Evident by the number of times I attempt to curb and slow people down in their newfound skin 'hobby' on here 🤣

Pupsie, CH is and always will be a sales person, with little consistency. She made a big song and dance of never ever working with Sunday Riley again a few years back, from the list above I see that's no longer true and Drunk Elephant is suddenly out of favour?

I think I missed the Sunday Riley thing Bo. Yeah I noticed that re DE: again, not sure why. She was fawning over the founde, Tiffany Masterson, during an interview with her a few months back.

This explains what happened with DE. The beginning is a lot of waffle:

www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/comments/d7zkkg/no_more_drunk_elephant/

Yeah it's a personal kerfuffle, I'm vaguely aware of it, so was the Sunday Riley thing. It's just not very consistent if your USP is products, not brand relations. The whole playing it out on social media just comes across as unprofessional for all parties involved, just sort it out behind the scenes and if it's unresolvable just quietly never mention them again. Use that influence if followers are having issues and you want to add weight to it but if you're normally in direct lines of communications it all seems rather overdramatic.

Yes, I probably look insane too with my giant sun hat on Outtheforest! I have the black hat Tsmummy. I also liked the white but thought it would get filthy. Was toying between navy and black. The black does get sun cream stains on it though (mainly on the inside from the cream I put on my forehead).

I really like my Vichy Mineral 89 thisisenglishlife (seems good on fine dehyration lines around eyes) so disappointed to read HA is no longer approved (although as I mentioned in a previous post, my dermatologist never seemed overly enthusiastic about HA).

CGM CHAT That is so impressive Bo! looks pretty much the same as the one I ordered I tried a rice water rinse yesterday and my hair seemed to like it. Must do protein treatments on a regular basis from now on.

Cracked open the wet skin miracle jelly. SO much better It is, isn't it? I read the ingredients list on all the wet skin miracles and it seemed to be the best one.

I really like my Vichy Mineral 89 thisisenglishlife
Carry on using it if it works for you. Also, the HA in that product is the further down the ingredients list, it's mainly mineral water and glycerin... So it's fine.