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🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Shitting About All Day Discussing Co Dictionary

993 replies

botemp · 08/06/2019 19:24

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8 Thread 9 Thread 10
Thread 11 Thread 12 Thread 13 Thread 14 Thread 15 Thread 16 Thread 17 Thread 18

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JUNE 2019: Autocorrect is our main source of entertainment these days Wink at least our snouts are looking good 🐽

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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botemp · 08/12/2019 09:38

Yes, that's the one although the packaging is new as it's always been in a dropper. I suspect they may have thickened the formula like the DE. I hope it won't be squirting all over the place like that GOW premature ejaculator 😱

Annoying though as it'll still need to go in the fridge and I don't think taking a week's worth out will work as easily for me if it's a thicker formula (I use dropper bottles). Hmm, this may be the excuse I needed to buy a beauty fridge.

OP posts:
Pupsiecola · 08/12/2019 14:58

Just got a credit note. Not without a fight. The one in the store was also orange. Use by date: April 2020. I told them it's means to be straw coloured and that this is about my 5th bottle. She tried to sell me the Sunday Riley but I said no thanks #fakenews

Karcheer · 08/12/2019 21:02

I’m going to use the tret for the first time tonight, any tips that won’t be on the instructions?

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 08/12/2019 22:54

Hi there

Long term lurker here and a confused skincare routine beginner. I’m fairly new to skincare and have amassed quite a collection over the last couple of months. I have mainly been using Votary oil cleanser and Herbivore facial oil, which are fab. I don’t want to spend any more money but I’m not sure how to use them. Hoping I might be able to get some advice from you experts.

Bit about me: combination skin, don’t usually have a problem with either breakouts or dry skin, so I’m lucky in that respect. I expect my skin is dehydrated and potentially congested underneath the surface though. I’ve dabbled in acid pads every now and then. Occasionally use a moisturiser. Ashamed to say I don’t use SPF but I avoid the sun whenever possible and wear shades any time the sun comes out. I’m late 30s and very sleep deprived (young baby) so have darkness under my eyes, but no bags and lines are minimal so far (under eye, forehead). I think people would say I have good skin despite me not really having a proper skincare routine. Weirdly my biggest issue is sweating on my face; barrier serums and SPF/ tinted moisturiser are the worst for making me sweat when I’m not even hot. I don’t really sweat on my body. It’s worse on my forehead.

These are the products I have and am confused which order they go in. Whether I can use together.

  • Votary rose geranium and apricot cleansing oil
  • Elixir universal emulsion
  • REN ready steady glow dAily AHA toner
  • Dr Sebagh repair serum with hyaluronic acid
  • Dr Sebagh Vitamin C powders
  • AA Algenist barrier serum
  • Caudalie premier cru eye cream
  • Caudalie serum revitalift
  • Herbivore Orchid youth preserving facial oil
  • caudalie resveratrol serum
  • Natura Bisse diamond white SPF 50 (I’m very scared of opening this as it was so expensive and I’m not sure it will be right for me).

I’m a study in “all the gear, no idea”!! I’ve literally only ever used a foam cleanser cloth and Vaseline to remove eye makeup.

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 08/12/2019 22:57

Please ignore the first Caudalie serum listed as it’s a mistake

botemp · 08/12/2019 23:29

Hi and welcome blue. Sorry not meaning to be patronising but did you head into a SpaceNk, get some help had a vague idea of boxes to tick and this is what you ended up with?

Are you able to return any of these because I just looked up the sunscreen which is an outrageous price for a very tiny amount (30ml vs your standard 50ml, the latter amount should last you just under a month when using the appropriate amount so 30ml will last you approx two weeks) with a sub par PA rating for (which is the one we generally care about for anti ageing and this time of year) and it looks to be more of a CC cream than a proper sunscreen so you're unlikely to be using enough of it to get the advertised protection.

It's a bit late so I'd have to check what the INCI of the other products are like, so will do that tomorrow. I do recognise your sweaty face issues, I call it sauna face, it seems very localised and I suspect it's because the skin barrier is actually quite good elsewhere and it sort of releases in weak areas, it's right between the brows for me. Skin generally hates anything heavily occlusive so I'll flag up any of your products that could possibly be sweat inducing.

Karcheer, I'm guessing you've already used it at this point but I would have just told you to follow your derm's instructions, they know better than us.

OP posts:
BlueSkyAtChristmas · 08/12/2019 23:39

Wow thank you Botemp You’re spot on! How did you guess?! I also purchased an Advent Calendar (not saying which one) and bought some products. The sunscreen doesn’t seem right at all, hence my hesitation at opening it. I will return

Thank you so much for offering to look into those products and for the ‘sauna face’ description. That is exactly it, very localised and definitely the product causing it. Pleased to hear I’m not that weird Grin

I also have other products I received (all full sized or deluxe travel size).
I am finding the Votary cleansing oil amazing. Also love the herbivore oil, I have baby soft skin after using it. And I haven’t broken out like I feared.

I’ve also been considering buying the Sunday Riley starter set as I have points to use. Can you tell I don’t know what I’m doing Grin

www.spacenk.com/uk/en_GB/skincare/skincare-set/skincare-sets/starter-kit-UK200022464.html

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 08/12/2019 23:40

P.s. being coy about the Advent Calendar because I don’t want to post spoilers for anyone reading who has it

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 07:55

Just in case it’s helpful, the other fresh products I have are:

  • Dr Dennis Gross Alpha Beta Exfoliating Moisturizer
  • Oskia Perfect Cleanser
  • REN Evercalm Global Protection Day Cream
botemp · 09/12/2019 08:23

Fresh as in recently purchased and can still be returned?

OP posts:
BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 09:03

Yes but I did get a GWP so I’m limited in what I can return. Also can’t return calendar items. I’m not too bothered about returning items, but I don’t want to spend more than £50

I also have ....
Becca backlight primer and under eye corrector
Dermalogica daily superfolient

ClientListQueen · 09/12/2019 09:29

I like the two Becca products if it helps...

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 09:44

@ClientListQueen thank you- I agree, I’ve been using the backlight primer for the last week and I think it gives me a lift. I’m using it on the non-T zone area - so focusing on cheeks, jaw. A little goes a long way

botemp · 09/12/2019 11:23

Alright, I hope there isn't anything more lurking in cupboards Wink I tend to be quite black and white on here with what ingredients to avoid even though they may not be irritating to everyone but it just makes more sense to preach a rather safe rather than sorry approach because even if you're not sensitive to something now you can become sensitised to a lot of the common irritants over time through exposure and it's something I rather not have on my conscious when these ingredients don't add anything substantive anyhow. It's quite interesting to see in the past few years now that skincare has become more common among men, it has come coupled with a surge of dermatitis cases as men are disproportionately flooding dermatologist's offices compared to previously.

First of all, it's a lot of products and some rather indulgent ones at that, I understand a lot are GWP or AC items, but still. I get that with a young baby and sleep deprivation the idea of a bit of 'me time' and self care sounds like a very appealing moment of pampering but the reality is that if you're knackered a multi-step routine is going to feel insurmountable at times and a less is more approach will see you get into the habit of it a lot better. These are my notes on your products:

  • Votary rose geranium and apricot cleansing oil

This is somewhat deceptively named. It's an oil cleansing method product rather than an oil cleanser as it doesn't contain any surfactants. I'm not a fan of the OCM as all it does is move makeup and dirt around your face, just nourishes it a bit with some steam and leaves a film behind there's no real cleansing involved. Temporarily your skin looks and feels better but you haven't really cleansed your face properly. Not everyone gets on with it well, but I would recommend not using this on its own and follow up with a gentle cleanser and seeking out a cleansing oil or balm with a surfactant in when this is finished.

  • Elixir universal emulsion

First impressions, it looks to be on the richer side, reviews seem more favourable to very dry skin. I'd be concerned about sauna face with this one. It also contains citrus essential oils which can be phototoxic (meaning they can inflict damage on skin when exposed to light in the immediate or only become apparent in the long term) so would not recommend using this during the day if you must use it. If it's a mini or GWP or similar I'd be tempted to pass it on or use it as a hand cream (at night).

  • REN ready steady glow dAily AHA toner

Also contains citrus essential oils, so if you must use it, use at night. Fragrance plus essential oils make this potentially irritating.

  • Dr Sebagh repair serum with hyaluronic acid

Right, so this is predominantly a collagen serum which always gets confusing as people assume lack of collagen can be topically supplemented. It can't, it contains hydrolysed collagen (essentially gelatine) and that does make the skin feel nicer but it's crock science -at this point in time- that it will actually do anything for your skin. Treat this as a hydrating serum, won't harm you, well maybe the old wallet will feel harmed.

  • Dr Sebagh Vitamin C powders

This is a mediocre Vit C product using the SAP derivative which can be helpful for people with active acne that leaves behind red marks, for others not as interesting. I'm hoping this is another GWP/AC product as it's a faff to use.

  • AA Algenist barrier serum

Pretty clean INCI, a bit of an overkill product unless you live in central London and cycle to work in the most polluted areas. Small caveat, it contains retinyl palmitate that is theorised to speed up the formation of cancerous (skin) tumours when exposed to light (where it becomes unstable), there's not a great amount and the concern is mostly when used in sunscreens but I'd use this at night only, preferably.

  • Caudalie premier cru eye cream

Could potentially be on the heavy side but otherwise, nothing problematic to spot beyond that it's expensive for what it is. If you spot any sort of millia forming, stop using it.

Caudalie serum revitalift

  • Herbivore Orchid youth preserving facial oil

A love of oils usually signal dehydrated skin as they provide instant relief, they just don't really fix the problem, unfortunately, just mask it in the temporary. Another one that is pricey for what it is (majority of coconut oil derivative that is used to bulk out) but I can see why you like it, they're lighter and close to skin-identical oils so no sauna face.

  • caudalie resveratrol serum

Essential oils and fragrance make this potentially irritating. Resveratrol is Caudalie's USP but it doesn't really warrant building entire products around. I'm hoping this is another AC/GWP, if you are going to use it, treat it like a night time serum for a bit of added hydration and repair.

Natura Bisse diamond white SPF 50 (I’m very scared of opening this as it was so expensive and I’m not sure it will be right for me).

  • Dr Dennis Gross Alpha Beta Exfoliating Moisturizer

Most unproblematic with a good set of active and support ingredients of the lot and probably a good one for you as it multitasks as an exfoliator, moisturiser, and barrier restore (that will help towards the dehydration issue). You have pretty easy skin theoretically so you don't really need to throw everything at it, this will probably serve you well in a pragmatic sense.

  • Oskia Perfect Cleanser

I'm undecided on this, it contains fragrance and EO which isn't that problematic in a wash-off product but user reviews aren't that good. It contains a lot of oils and only one mild surfactant but it's not an oil cleanser, I can imagine this leaving a film and eventually leading to breakouts (which would explain the unfavourable reviews). As an unproblematic (as far as you know) combo skin you just may fall on the right side of this but it could potentially be the opposite. I'd axe if possible.

  • REN Evercalm Global Protection Day Cream

I have a long dislike of the Evercalm range, I used it about ten years or so ago and the smell made me want to retch. Granted I'm sensitive to scents but would still suggest to sniff it in store before use. Fragrance and citrus essential oils would mean I can only suggest using it in the PM. Not anticipating it'll be too heavy but there are better options out there for a simple moisturiser that is less problematic and cost less.

-Becca backlight primer and under eye corrector

Can't speak to the makeup performance but Becca generally is good with not using common irritants so tend to be safe bets from a skin irritation POV.

-Dermalogica daily superfolient

Contains EO but as mentioned previously not such an issue in a wash-off product. Otherwise, a potential morning/second cleanse. I know you're supposed to mix it with water, do use enough water otherwise you risk it acting like a physical scrub too much.

If I had to cherry pick and build a routine, it would be as follows:

AM:

Dermalogica Superfoliant (but if you're knackered and need to get on with life you can probably get away with just rinsing with lukewarm)

Dr Sebagh Vitamin C and I believe you can mix it with other products which would make it less of a faff to use, so I'd mix with the Dr Sebagh repair serum for an efficient one step.

Moisturiser if you need it, the Dennis Gross is probably better suited for night, the Evercalm I'm iffy to recommend here so if you need an alternative the Cerave PM moisturising lotion would slot in well here. I'm guessing with the repair serum you may very well be able to skip this step but I'm not familiar with the texture of the product.

Eye cream, using it at night can lead to puffiness for some people in the morning and it often helps concealer sit better.

SPF - can you swap it for something at SpaceNK? Are you breastfeeding still, that would influence the SPF rec I'd make as certain filters are best avoided on a rather safe than sorry account?

PM

Votary Cleansing oil

Gentle cleanser- Cerave hydrating is a good one, the Oskia would be too similar to the Votary.

AA Algenist barrier serum (could potentially skip when you're knackered)

Dr Dennis Gross moisturizer, potentially layer over the herbivore oil (it's not really a necessity but you obviously enjoy using it and it's light enough not to be overdoing it) or alternate nights as I'm not sure how strong the DG moisturiser is, his stuff is pretty potent but I suspect this cream should be designed for daily use, not confident enough to suggest twice daily use but once a day should theoretically be ok.

Oh, and no to Sunday Riley anything, it's a brand to be avoided altogether, some very dodgy practices both in marketing communications and leaving glowing reviews of their own products to drown out negative reviews which they've owned up to and it's speculated they also leave negative reviews on competitor's brands.

OP posts:
Karcheer · 09/12/2019 12:35

Hello all, I survived my first night of tret, followed their guidelines to the letter. No issues so far.
So tonight I’ll be using my bha. I’ll be following this regime (Alternative nights) for the next month unless something odd happens.

botemp · 09/12/2019 12:54

Karcheer, how are you getting on with the Purito SPF?

OP posts:
BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 13:25

Wow @botemp that’s a pretty amazing response! I’m so grateful for the time you spent on it. I’m going to try and digest it all now and then come back later with any reflections/ questions x

Sammi38 · 09/12/2019 13:41

Blue sky, I think I got the same gwp and advent calendar as you.

I haven’t been on this thread for a while. A while back I was using a lot of drunk elephant products, my skin went quite nice, but then looked really aged for some reason! Probably dehydration. So, I knocked it on the head and changed it completely.

My skin is now looking the best it ever has.

I currently use:

AM
Garnier micellar water
Jurlique rose toner
Elemis super serum
Liz Earle moisturiser
Lancôme precious cells eye cream.

Pm
Liz Earle cleanse and polish
Liz Earle toner
Elemis super serum (using this up as received a bottle of vintners daughter for a present and can’t wait to try it).
Eve Lom moisturiser
Lancôme eye cream.

Once a week I use liquid gold or good genes.

I don’t have much in the way of actives going on there just my exfoliant once a week, but my routine at the moment suits my skin really well.

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 13:55

@botemp still reading and digesting. Sooo helpful Smile Yes, I’m still breastfeeding and will be for next few months x

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 15:11

Thanks so much for that very thorough and well explained post @botemp I’m fascinated by all the science and appreciate you cutting through the hype and marketing!

I don’t feel too bad having a random bunch of mainly mediocre or useless products! I’ve hardly spent any money on skincare over the years so I’ve hopefully made all my mistakes in one go Grin

So interesting about the Votary and Herbivore oils. I thought they were miracle products but now I can see I’m just dehydrated (as suspected). It makes so much sense why my pores don’t look very clear.

I’m going to relegate the elixir emulsion and Algenist to night time as I don’t want sauna face!

I’m also pleased the Dermalogica and Dr Dennis Gross are good. I’ve dabbled using them and like them/ find them easy to use. Especially the Dermalogica in the morning with plenty of water- that works well as a busy mum.

I’m going to finish my reply later as baby calling!

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 15:27

I was just saying about the Dermalogica- it’s easy for me to use in the shower. I can multitask by wetting my hair while lathering the superfolient all over my face! So this product works well for a busy mum!

I don’t find the Dr Sebagh moisturising at all. It’s not causing an ill effect or sensivity, but I’m not sure it really does anything if that makes sense? The Dr Sebagh vit c powder - although slightly faffy - gives me a glow and soft feeling (I need to mix with a moisturiser to use it though). Good idea to mix with the serum repair to use it up (and it doesn’t give sauna face!). I’m not sure I’d repurchase as it’s incredibly expensive and if there are cheaper alternative(s) I’d rather buy that instead. This is an excellent suggestion to avoid sauna face.

I’ll continue to use the REN toner up (bottle is generous) but is there another active you would recommend as an alternative? How about the Pixi tonic or the other one (can’t remember the name) which seems to be in ACs at the moment?

The cerave products you recommend are so cheap, I’m going to get those.

I do have some points at Space Nk - plus if I return the SPF I’ll need to get something else. What would you recommend please? Doesn’t have to be at Space NK but I expect a credit note, so it would help

Thanks again. I’m excited to start following this routine and enjoy a glowing complexion without looking like a sweaty mess Grin

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 15:35

Hi there @Sammi38 - AC and GWP twin Grin

That’s so interesting about the Drunk Elephant. I keep seeing bloggers raving about it, but was suspicious it’s over hyped Hmm It’s the good old Elemis and Liz Earle saving the day! I have dabbled in both of these over the years ...unfortunately the marine cream caused spots both times and Liz Earle cream cleanser is popular for a reason but I didn’t get on with it enough to repurchase or keep up a skincare routine. But I know most of my family swear by both these products- they’re popular for good reason

BlueSkyAtChristmas · 09/12/2019 15:38

Can I ask a really dumb and obvious question? What is this double cleanse that Caroline Hirons speaks of? I know everyone knows what it is by now .... so it’s never explained. I feel like the student at the back of the maths class who can’t keep up because I haven’t got the basics! Blush

Karcheer · 09/12/2019 15:47

I don’t feel very well qualified to answer... but it’s basically cleansing twice, once to get rid of make up etc, the second for a deeper cleanse.