🐌 Fantastic Skincare: New Year, NuFaces

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JANUARY 2019: We're exploring gadgets, and I, Accountability Bo, will attempt to keep everyone in line

Botox done hurt more this time weirdly, not mega painful but I did say ouch a few times!

Was it done by the same person? Do they keep an exact record of where they last injected or is it more of an approximation in the general area? Can you see the difference already or do you have to wait a bit @YesQueen

Same person, always. I won't use anyone else and she does the same places
No difference yet. I get a slight headache after and then it takes 7-10 days to properly work. If at 10 days I feel I need more then I go back for a free top up, last time I went back as one eyebrow was about 0.0001mm higher than the other and she corrected it for me

So Aussie miracle moist shampoo and 3min miracle in same is awful. Hair floppy and frizzy at the same time and my ends are rough and dry. Definitely a total pass on that one. I've ordered more Redken heatcure masks, Lush American cream and for my cheap in between conditioner I'll go back to the Ultimate Blends (Marvellous Transformer) one.

If anyone knows of any really nourishing hair masks or conditioners for thick wavy hair with dry ends prone to frizz then please please let me know. Preferably something with silicones in it. Any price, willing to spends loads on something that'll give me that silky smooth shiny feel. I probably need the ends chopping off

Hi everyone, hoping I can join in? I’ve been interested in more detailed skincare for a while now and have been playing about with different concentrations of acids etc...

After some trial and error, I think I’ve
Finally found something
That works for me:

Am:
Elemis cleanser that you just wipe off with cotton pads
Liz Earle toner (using a vit c serum so don’t want to upset ph levels by using a aha/bha toner in the am.
Drunk elephant vitamin C serum
Ultra sun anti ageing anti pigmentation spf50 (they say on the website that this can be used instead of a moisturiser also)
If I do use a moisturiser it’s usually marine cream or Environ

Evening:
Micellar cleansing water
Liz Earle cleanse and polish
Pixie glow tonic toner
Drunk elephant b hydra serum
Drunk elephant peptide moisturiser/ Claris nuit moisturiser.

Once a week at the moment I’m using 1% retinol and on that night I don’t do the acid tone. I’m mixing it with Marula oil or the b hydra serum to ease myself in gently.

I’ve also got liquid gold so may work that into my routine somewhere!

I’m off to Spain soon where you can get Retin-A over the counter in the pharmacy, so I’m going to pick up some 0.025% strength cream.

Does my routine sound ok? I’m 38 with combination skin, old acne scarring and some pigmentation. Is there anything you’d recommend changing?

Ps, anyone have any feedback on drunk elephant? I have quite a few items from there.

enid I have alot of thick, wavy and frizzy hair and find the John freida frizz ease range works wonders on it. I use the conditioner and also the mask.

@Enid What about the Philip Kingsley Elasticiser?

@Sammi38 Your routine sounds perfect but Bo is the best at breaking it all down for you.
Drunk Elephant has always had good reviews although I've never tried it.

The only thing I can add is that Liz Earle cleanse and polish did not work for me and brought me out in lumps and bumps on my face so if you do have any issues then that may be a culprit.

I use Emma Hardie, Clinique TTDO and Dr Sams flawless cleanser as well as my Murad clarifying face wash and Bioderma Micellar water.
I've just started with Liquid Gold again and be careful not to use it with any other acids before or after application and only 2 -3 times a week as a stand alone product.
You can use the retinol after acid tone which I do as my skin is used to it, I leave about 30mins between application.

I also have combination skin with old acne scarring and it's all pretty much gone which I put down to using my Paulas Choice BHA 2% skin perfecting lotion followed by Differin (your retinol will do the same if not a better job) and having a good routine like yours.

Vitamin C does nothing for me and tends to break me out for some reason.
I really like the Pixi retinol toner and their rose toner (I just don't like the Liz Earle stuff as it doesnt like my skin at all)

@YesQueen she sounds amazing if she can do tiny corrections like that.

@botemp we need a new thread soon, you do the best titles

Enid Castor oil? for your hair.

@TantricTwist thank you for your response, I do notice after using the cleanse and polish that my pores seem a bit ‘gapey’, although it does feel super clean after.

I’ve just ordered the trial size of drunk elephant of Babyfacial which is 25% AHA and 2% BHA so massive acid level. You can’t get it in the EU so I’ve gone through a courier service in the states. I’ve seen some of the results from using this online and it’s brilliant. So will wait with trepidation!

Bugger it Tant, I'll have to think of something quick. In light of recent typos posts can it just be 'Shitting About All Day Discussing Co Dictionary?'

Marigold, if you haven't purchased yet, I recently sampled the Clinique mineral SPFs. I liked the SPF 30 but the SPF 50 has a bit of a white cast and was a lot heavier on the skin. So as a daily SPF for someone who doesn't get on with SPF I'd definitely go for the SPF 30. So long as you use the appropriate amount and you're not on prescription tretinoin you're well covered. A mineral SPF 50 I quite like is the Pigeon UV from Japan.

Sammi, I'd advice you to take a step back for a bit. You're a classic case of running before you can walk, initial excitement of discovering active skincare phase. Less is more. If you're aiming on having tretinoin in your routine it needs to be paired back and minimal without common irritants and without all the surplus products and peels as you'll just end up with overly irritated skin that will be increasingly difficult to manage. If you want me to be nitpicky and go through your routine one by one, I can do that but it'll be pretty brutal. I would definitely look into different ways of cleansing, a micellar isn't a proper cleanser and I'm not a fan of leaving potentially irritating surfactants on the skin by not washing it off.

On DE, I've yet to try anything, for me, personally, they bloat out the INCI with potentially irritating extracts whose workings are a bit questionable but I know the Vit C is well liked by many on here.

Bo I'm crying with laughter at that one real tears are being shed.

That thread title would be amazing Bo

Sammi I'm not as expert as Bo and have never used Drunk Elephant but strongly agree with her about adding too much too soon, especially if you're going to be adding Tret. I also thought your cleansing routine didn't sound great, a wipe off cleanser isn't really suited for a morning cleanse, you really need something that rinses off with water or just plain water and a flannel if you have dry skin. It also seems like you're using two first stage cleansers (micellar and Liz Earle) in the evening, but I react to both micellar water and Liz Earle C&P so no expert when it comes to them either!

Enid I've found the best thing for my hair (used on lengths only) is this garnier 3 in 1 mask, I only use it as a leave in (on both wet and dry hair) as wash out conditioners all seem to make my hair staticky and poofy. I've tried all kinds over the years and this is as good as anything and it has the bonus of being cheap! I've also use a coconut oil on dry hair but I dispensed it into a small bottle for travel and now can't remember the brand think it might be Organix.

Tant I love elasticizer, use it every couple of weeks ish, but think I need moisture. Bit scared of castor oil but I'll think about it.
Out I like their serum, I'll give their other stuff a try too thank you. Didn't think of them!
Sallie I'll try that one too. Their normal conditioners are good and I bet that smells gorgeous.
Thank you all for the suggestions.

I ordered a L'Oreal Professionnel conditioning mask last night. Also some leave in conditioner stuff from Kerastase that I've had before and like. So with those plus your suggestions it should feel better.

Got Elemis salt glow, Elemis peptide cream oil and eyelash serum too. Also bought the mini size of Glamglow Supermask just for nose because it got rid of the SFs better than any other mask I've tried. Too harsh to use on my cheeks or chin though. High maintenance snout.

bo good title!

Sammi hi and welcome 👋🏻

Sallie Ooh missed the bit about leaving it on. Guess that's why it's called 3 in 1? That's a great idea!

Thankyou for the reply botemp. The tret is for when autumn/winter comes so around October time, so am only using a tiny amount of retinol once weekly for now. As I’m spending 3 weeks of the summer in Spain, and don’t want my skin to be too sensitive while I’m there.

I’ve developed pigmentation above my upper lip which looks a bit like a moustache, so am hoping something in my regime will help to shift it, if not, I’ll look into laser at some point in the future.

If you have any feedback I would appreciate it, you can be as brutal as you like, I’m thick skinned!

I’ve always had real troubles finding a decent cleanser, I don’t really like face washes.

It does smell nice Enid as long as you like coconut & I think the hair oil I mentioned is Garnier too according to my Amazon account! And just seen they're doing this hair food now too which is also a leave in, might give it a try.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07L5WH74Y/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Sammi most of us here use an oil for a first cleanse, I think the most popular second cleanse is La Roche Posay Toleriane Hydrating cleanser, it's creamy (so similar texture to Liz Earle) and can be removed with flannel/hot cloth in the same way but it's not fragranced like the LE. But I'm biased against LE as the C&P made me want to scratch my face off so I don't have fond memories

Oh and my face did not fall off after the mandelic acid peel, not even had the teeniest bit of peeling so think it's pretty mild. Doesn't seem to have done much though (story of my life) but will probably keep using it once a week.

Sallie Love coconut! Especially at this time of year☀️ I have a couple of oil sprays in my hair basket. I'll see what I have in there. I keep sniffing the banana version of that one in the link. They all smell really good. Let me know if you get it and like it.

I won’t be getting the banana one Enid I hate the things and the smell of them so will stick to coconut I’ve got 3 tubs of the garnier mask in my stash so shouldn’t really buy the hair food, I probably will though

Hi all wondering if I can join the convo. I'm in desperate need of help.

My skin is really getting me down and it's all my own fault I'm almost 32 and I've never really done anything to look after it.

I have rosacea which I'm currently going through the mill with my gp about treating - diet changes, he's putting it down to chlorine in water when I swim etc hoping I'll get something for it soon.

Bottom line is I am clueless about any form of skin care. I've always had dry skin my fore head in particular and I cannot wear lipstick as the skin on my lips is so dry.

I try to stay away from specialist counters as I'm basically a sales persons dream I don't know anything and they could just be flogging me with their own expensive products that I don't know if they're right for me or not. Plus I'm quite self conscious that when I walk away I'll be the topic of conversation just as to how bad I actually look.

I'm hoping anyone on this thread can begin to point me on my skin care journey...

What I know about my skin...

1. Rosacea very prominent on my cheeks almost fiery red and is present all day every day
2. Very dry especially forhead/ lips
3. My nose has these wee dots all over the bridge (I've tried to read up on that but I don't know if it's pores, blackheads etc)
4. My chin can be quite red too sometimes and can get the occasional spot.
5. I have really dark circles under my eyes

Its really getting me down how dull I look and it's really affecting my confidence. If anyone can advise me of anything I should be doing - or can point me in the direction of any non company specific website I can get advice or anything I would really appreciate it.

Hi missmartini 👋

From what you’ve said I think you really need medical rather than OTC treatment for your rosacea. Your does GP sound very unhelpful but could there be anything in what he’s saying about chlorine? I’m allergic to chlorine (get itchy skin rashes & it also really irritates my eyes and makes me wheezy) but I hate swimming so no great loss in my case. How often do you swim and would you be able to steer clear for a few weeks & see if it made any difference?

If it doesn’t then I’d keep pestering your doctor & tell them you’ve eliminated chlorine as a cause and/or ask to see a different GP, or if you can afford it see a private derm. I don’t have rosacea so can’t really give any constructive advice but I’ve seen a lot of people here on style and beauty saying soolantra (which is prescription only as far as I know) worked for them.

Thanks @SallieSallow

In fairness to my gp I know they'll try anything before resorting to steroids and I'm happy to comply in the process. I hadn't considered swimming could be a factor until he mentioned it. I used to swim loads then stopped when I had my kids and I've only this year started up again. It's slightly more inflamed but I can also have bad flare ups on the weeks/ months before when I've never been to the pool which I said to my gp too. I've to keep a food diary for 2 weeks and then rebook and see if there's anything diet related that could be the cause for that.

That's just one piece of the puzzle (although admittedly the one that gets me down most) about my skin.

Hoping with some guidance I can start to see some small improvements all over, I just have no clue where to start!

Sammi, pigmentation above the lip sounds like melasma. Is it something that started to appear with/around pregnancy or other hormonal changes? In all honesty it's a waste of time trying to tackle that with OTC products without a proper diagnosis and calls for caution with other use of actives. Pigmentation is pretty tough to tackle but melasma especially is difficult, best you can do is manage it from getting worse by staying out of the sun, using a physical sunscreen at all times and topping up religiously, wearing wide brimmed hats, etc. There are a few ingredients that can help a bit with management but I'd really be seeking out a diagnosis for it, internet randoms can't diagnose a thing and it may very well be some other form of pigmentation that requires different treatments and anything OTC you'll buy for it will only be able to manage it rather than actually tackle it.

I wouldn't be using tretinoin at all without guidance from a dermatologist in your case either. It'll make you more photosensitive and more prone to pigmentation. It can tackle it but this really isn't the territory to play DIY dermatologist.

Similarly glycolic is a tricky one as well, it can tackle some pigmentation as a result of sun damage but overuse can stimulate pigmentation. I'd personally avoid it or drastically cut back use.

WRT your routine in general, there are a lot of brands with a lot of common irritants like fragrance, essential oils, fragrant compounds, etc. Just because you can handle them now doesn't mean that it'll be like that forever. Especially if you start using prescription strength products that will test the strength of your skin barrier, whether it be for pigmentation or anti-ageing. It's also not great for pigmentation, essential oils especially can be phototoxic, accelerating sun damage and can be the trigger for more pigmentation.

I've already mentioned the cleansing, I'd just use a bland unfragranced cleanser in the AM you wash or flannel off. No need for a toner as a result which are rarely a necessity.

So basically if I was ruthlessly culling your routine I'd leave the products from drunk elephant and ultrasun (can't recall if that's chemical/chemical mix/physical though) in. Although be cautious with the Sukari overnight facial due to the high acid content. I'd wait until autumn/winter just to be safe. What Retinol are you using?

Hi and welcome martini. Don't be so hard on yourself the state of your skin is not down to you, rosacea is pretty tough to manage and leaving it alone is much preferable to subjecting it to a continual cycle of hope in a jar type products that only deliver on irritation to the skin.

I was going to mention inquiring after Soolantra as well. Most GPs aren't that aware of it as it's relatively new, skin issues rarely are their specialty so it's no surprise the process can be exhausting and sometimes behind the times.

In terms of basic care, keep it as minimal as possible, gentle cleanser, gentle lightweight moisturiser and a physical sunscreen. It's important to avoid common irritants so you're looking at French pharmacy style products mostly. Are you using anything at all at the moment? I generally don't advice switching out everything all at once to most but it's especially the case for those with rosacea to be really cautious and carefully introducing one product at a time.

I'd start with cleanser, a thermal water spray to use after and tissue off, then introduce an SPF or moisturiser. If you need specific product recs it's good to know what you have and haven't gotten on with previously.

BHA may be beneficial to you, it helps rosaceae a touch as it's anti inflammatory but it's mostly used to tackle sebaceous filaments, or wee black dots as you call them. But something to consider once you've got the basics covered, though potentially you could consider a cleanser with BHA in it.

Dark circles are difficult to tackle if it's hereditary and even if they're not, the actives needed are most likely to harsh to handle for you so I'd suggest investing in a good concealer instead.

Sammi I think other people have said it all - when I read your post what stood out was that you said that "it works for you" but you didn't say why. Did you mean that "I use these products and don't break out/experience irritation"? I'd like to see some improvement of things I consider issues in my skin before saying "this works for me", iyswim.

I don't really rate the Pixie tonic, which imo is a little bit smoke and mirrors. And I don't like any cleansing done with cotton pads - I'm a cleansing oil woman . But I don't have experience with the brands/products you mentioned apart from the Pixie.

Martini all that sounds very tough. You haven't said if you use anything at all on your face and what that might be? I'm very ignorant about rosacea I'm afraid so I hope your GP can help you out. Have you read the skin care sheets in the OP? Re the dry skin on your forehead I was going to say that I find urea as an ingredient to be very helpful with that sort of thing. If that is a rosacea irritant I don't know.

@Martini most GP's havent a clue re skin issues so you should see a dermatologist by either being referred by your GP or finding a decent private one in your area. You can start by looking on the website of your local private hospitals, read the Dermatologist's reviews etc look them up online as they will have their own websites too if they're any good.