🐌 Fantastic Skincare: We're So Drunk We're Seeing Elephants 🐘

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

WRT to The Ordinary/Deciem:

Most of us had long since stopped using it, partially due to the inconsistency of formulations and the worrying behaviour of the CEO on Social Media.

For more info on the latter, overview here

A good overview of alternatives is here

Since that compilation, other brands like the Inkey, Revolution Skincare, QRXLabs, and Alex Steinherr x Primark have launched with similar products/concepts.

From the limited experience on here, the Vitamin C 23% and Azelaic Acid from Garden of Wisdom (at Victoria’s Health) is well liked and much preferred over TO versions.

OCTOBER 2018: In other news, we’re two years old this month! We’re so old- Drunk Elephant is finally available in the UK, but all this celebration is probably overshadowed by the fear that our beloved LRP Toleriane Fluide may have been discontinued

Thanks Sallie do you do a clockwise circular massage or anti clockwise? I realise I sound mad for asking this 🤦🏼‍♀️. I'm so glad your getting on well with the medik8 vit c I really like it too.

Fluffy it's so frustrating isn't it! I used it this eve and now have a sore spot in my eyebrow and a few red spots on my cheekbone! Also the red spotty rash I'm prone to getting on my neck always seems to come up for a bit after I've used it. Going to discontinue use I think....

QRXlabs - I'm using the retinol, the glycolic peel and the whitening lotion (I know what you mean about the name but it's not really about lightening/whitening - it's about fading marks and evening out tone). Im having good results. Didn't know about it containing oils. I've very spot-prone but haven't broken out so far.

It’s night have been me who linked to the Cerave from Timeless Uk? www.timeless-uk.com/products/new-arrival-cerave-facial-moisturising-lotion-no-spf-52ml

Bo. I noticed the huge (typical!?) price of the skincare products. I'm sure it's inflated and I don't like jars at all. I was thinking more about makeup, I tend to buy too many lipsticks and they have some eyeshadow sticks that look very similar to the Bobbi brown ones. I don't care about packaging as long as it doesn't come apart 😁
I do take reviews with a pinch of salt. For example, the reviews for babyliss hair care. I use babyliss big hair every day and I've been using it for years now. One important thing for me is that it must be possible to remove the brush to clean it from products buildup and replace it when the bristles inevitably go flat from usage. Sadly the new model, interesting as it may seem, does not have a detachable brush ( because of those heat sensors I assume). I was surprised and disappointed while reading the reviews from ppl that used/own the old model that nobody mentioned about how the brush can't be cleaned and ( eventually) replaced.
I watched the last Nadine acne video, and I'm curious about exuviance. BHA really helped my skin but for some reason my chin remains congested (blackheads, recurring hormonal spots). I can't get hold of BHA at more than 2% so I was wondering if that mandelic acid or polyhydroxy acids might make a difference ( they were mentioned in the video).
Link to Nadine's video, I quite like the women she is interviewing:

Quick post. I'm a bit down atm and brain is quite flitty (is that a word? 'Unsettled' I guess) so can't keep up.

But just wanted to say that I think I like that new LRP toleriane Sensitive fluide. My skin feels smoother and has less congestion (itty bitty dots under the skin in my case) than it did so either this new fluid is smoothing things out or, as I was starting to suspect, the LRP toleriane fluide I was using, was causing some congestion. This one sinks in better and doesn't feel like it's sitting on the top which I was finding with the old one. Seems to perform the same under make up as far as oiliness and longevity goes. Jury is still out as I like to test things for a whole cycle- because hormones- but good so far.

Also it says frangeance free and it is but there's a lovely very slight sweet smell to it as you apply, which I like.

I rubs palms together lightly and press products into skin. The only things I rub in are the serum I use on my nose. Anything on face and neck is pressed or patted in. I do a bit of a massage with cleansers but nothing major. I go from the centre outwards because of something I very vaguely remember about lymph nodes and drainage. Seems to depuff my upper eyelids in the morning anyway.

Good god ignore all the spelling mistakes and annoying auto correct substitutions. 🧐

Enid when u press moisturiser into skin don't you find you can still see it on the surface rather than absorbing? More so I suppose with spf as you need to apply a decent amount? I like the idea of pressing/patting but I worry it's going to take an age?

Mint I don't use much. Just one pump, maybe one and a bit sometimes. Just rub hands together and put it on. I use my whole palm and fingers to press my face. It takes the same time as rubbing or massaging in would. I just found I got less congestion doing it like this. I don't know why though.

Naboo, sorry I missed your post. Sounds like you're on the right one then or at least going down the right road. I haven't had any contraception for 12 years and it's amazing how quickly you forget what's what with the pill etc so I shouldn't advise anyone really. I have a migraine coming in today too. Sympathies.

Enid do you only use small amount of spf too??
I'm sorry you have a migraine coming on, I can really sympathise with this 💐

Thank you Bo. My derm looked at the ingredients for both and although she doesn't want me starting a vit C just yet, she said that for my skin, the Skinceuticals would be better. Think it was the vit E oil (IIRC) in the DE that she didn't like for me.
I'll have a google and see if I can find that blogger.

Mint, hello 🤗 I purged for at least 3 months after starting tretinoin. Spots everywhere. My derm reminded me that she had warned me about this but it was still a bit depressing to find the treatment for my acne made it even worse. Hang in there (if you can!).

Nice that was it, thank you so much - I’ve just ordered and have it bookmarked now

Mint I think I do clockwise - sort of up and out if that makes sense but very gently.

Enid I misread your post as your brain being filthy at first - thought we were in for more spurting spout and the aubergine emoji discussion Flitty makes perfect sense though and hope you’re feeling better/less unsettled soon

Babypigeon my hair broke the BaByliss big hair I was looking into the new one to try and work out if it would be more robust, but heated styling appliances give me terrible frizz so think I’m best steering clear of them full stop.

Sophie I've used Skinceuticals and DE vit C - SC is more watery, very similar to the Vichy one, while DE is a soft serum (slightly oily maybe?). I prefer the texture of the DE as it feels like an extra layer of moisture for my dry skin. In terms of effectiveness, I've no idea whether one has been more useful than the other! I look at vit C as a bit of insurance - I've been using various brands for donkey's years! Hope that helps :)

Brain always filthy.

It's a cracker of one so should get off internet.

Mint I'm not using any at mo. Know that's bad. Was trying to get the congestion issue sorted and work out source. I didn't use as much as they say though no,

Thank you.

SallieSallow I'm not surprised really because this brushes don't have the most durable motors/engines. Actually I think they have toy motors. 😀
Do you have very dense thick hair ?
I have fine hair and the brush has a smoothing effect on mine, but I do use product for better results. I could not live without mine, I use it everyday. Over the years I had several brushes (not all from babyliss) and I liked them all.
I was really excited about the new one because it sounds better for the hair, but not being able to properly clean the brush is a drealbreaker for me. Especially at that price. It does look more sturdy but if you want to try it, I would wait for it to be reduced in price.
Talking about hair, does anyone like curl secret? I wonder if it damages the hair constant use.

Yes Babypigeon I have long, thick coarse hair that’s very prone to frizz. Think I just had too much hair for the big hair to cope with, it used to get all tangled up and the spinny action stopped spinning after a few weeks.

My hair is neither straight nor curly but it holds a curl much better than it takes to being straightened and I can curl without heat (sleep in rag rollers) so I’ve given up on hot brushes and the like.

I do have the curl secret though and quite like it - but I only use it when I’ve curled my hair with the rag rollers and just need to revive some of the curls on the second or third day (my hair doesn’t like being washed too often). I have to be very careful to only use it on the ends and take tiny strands otherwise it does get snarled up. I tried doing my whole head with it once and it took forever, I thought my arm was going to drop off!

Talking of hair I keep debating as to whether I should have a proper cut and maybe go up to shoulder length, but hair dresser phobia + bad luck with haircuts on this thread = too scared to take the risk!

Hi Sophie, that's very interesting. I was ready to give up on it but wondering whether to continue for a while?? It's only a low dose would it really cause purging if so low?

Thanks Sallie and Enid x

That is very helpful Tsmummy - thank you. And it makes sense with what the derm told me.

Mint, Hmmm not sure re % of retinoid and purging but honestly I had loads of spots come out and it was months before things got better. How long have you been using yours?

Sophie I'm not sure exactly how long but at a guess I'd say 1-2 months

Trucking, yes it's the name I have issue with. They could just call it pigmentation or brightening, if it actually did lighten skin it would not be an OTC product. Even the Asian brands are aware enough not to export this terminology so thought it was odd from a Western brand. The INCI of the whitening serum also contains alcohol which is another odd one to include in a clinical brand but I do get why it's there as a penetration enhancer. But I'm a bit more on the fence about the inclusion of DMAE, it's a controversial ingredient WRT long term safety as it enlarges cells.

Thank you NiceUnusalDifferent That's the one. Will update it when I remember.

Pigeon, I fell asleep during that video but think I did manage to catch most of it. I'm a bit annoyed by all the 'natural' talk but Mandelic has been very popular with Asian Beauty enthusiasts for quite some time, the Dr. Wu Mandelic 20% is very popular, particularly those with skin prone to PIH and darker skin. I've been a longtime fan of PHA in the form of BR P50. I'd skip over Exuviance and head straight to its non fragranced sister brand Neostrata. For a long time Neostrata and Biologique Recherche were the only ones using PHAs, it's only recently since the patent ran out (which I think Neostrata had or had exclusive rights to) that it's suddenly popular. Same as was the case with glycolic a few years ago.

Sophie, blogger was Vanity Rex, she used both for a long time, the reviews are in her empties, but the DE review was of an older version, it's been reformulated since. I've never used it, but dermatologists often really like the Obagi Vitamin C as well, possibly because they sell it. You could also consider the Skinceuticals serum 10 which is a 10% concentration version of the CE ferulic, it'll be milder to start off with.

Enid, I'm very tempted to include filthy brains into the next title

Thank you for the info, Bo. I did have a look at neostrata because it's on the website Nadine linked in her video. I'm not comfortable with the perfume in Exuviance (also those skinrise exfoliating pads have some scary irritants in them), but i got confused looking at the Neostrata products. If I was to try a polyhydroxy acids toner/products which one would be the best to start with ? I heard about P50 but it did sound very harsh. I know now there are more than one version, not sure which I should try. The highest percentage of acid I ever used is that 10% glycolic front Paula's choice , but not every day and it does tingle for a second on application.

I don't find P50 that harsh but do find it effective. Difficult thing with acids is that % only tells you so much, it's acid in combination with pH that gives the free acid number (Lab Muffin has a really good post and calculator for this) that determines how harsh or not something is. Also, the molecule size comes into it, glycolic is small hence highly irritating as it's absorbed rapidly, PHA and Mandelic are very large so less likely to irritate. So the 20% mandelic sounds like a proper peel but it's very mild and can easily be used daily.

PHA is a bit difficult these days as it exists as lactobionic and gluconolactone. I think BR used lacto and Neostrata a combination of both. I've never tried them but Missha makes PHA pads that are gentle and without common irritants.

P50 you usually start with the W, if very sensitive on a damp cotton pad and build up use to a dry pad, then usually move onto the ordinary P50 one or the one for maturer skin.

Thank you Bo, I will have a look at these brands.

Clean faces and filthy brains. Although that sounds like a goth burlesque group or something.

Migraine hangover today so eating everything in sight. Weirdly the only thing that helped at all last night was chocolate milk. Not all the pain killers or ice packs. Cleared up about 10 mins after drinking it. Something to try if anyone gets desperate with one in the future.

Re the new lrp, my skin is looking clearer and more even toned I think. There's something brighter about it. Feels a little more dry than usual though.

By 'cleared up' I mean the light sensitivity and pressure. My head still hurt etc but it was nowhere near as bad as it was. Could've been coincidence but they usually go on for a full 24hrs at least so getting choc milk in to keep just in case.