🐌 Fantastic Skincare: We're So Drunk We're Seeing Elephants 🐘

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

WRT to The Ordinary/Deciem:

Most of us had long since stopped using it, partially due to the inconsistency of formulations and the worrying behaviour of the CEO on Social Media.

For more info on the latter, overview here

A good overview of alternatives is here

Since that compilation, other brands like the Inkey, Revolution Skincare, QRXLabs, and Alex Steinherr x Primark have launched with similar products/concepts.

From the limited experience on here, the Vitamin C 23% and Azelaic Acid from Garden of Wisdom (at Victoria’s Health) is well liked and much preferred over TO versions.

OCTOBER 2018: In other news, we’re two years old this month! We’re so old- Drunk Elephant is finally available in the UK, but all this celebration is probably overshadowed by the fear that our beloved LRP Toleriane Fluide may have been discontinued

Enid Sorry, I've been offline for a couple of days, with a bloody migraine. They won't let me have a combined pill, only the mini one. My doctor says there is an increased risk of stroke on the combined one as a migraine sufferer with visual disturbances. I always got on well with combined ones, skin included!

It looks like Dianette is prescribed only for excess hair and acne now, having Googled it. They also don't like to prescribe it for over 35s, and I now fall into this bracket

I like the look of the sprays too Tant and might well give them a try.

Tsmummy every week I tell myself I’m going to start tret again and keep putting it off due to the initial flaking and peeling - mine is only mild but annoying nonetheless.

Naboo I got booted on to the mini pill too but they let me go to 40, probably because I have no contra-indications like migraine or high blood pressure.

Yes I'm using the sprays a lot at the moment and they also seem to work well as setting sprays for makeup which is a bonus.

The Simply pure serum is working well esp under my differin so my face isn't as sensitive as it had been but I still seem to get all the benefits.
I'm still really happy with the Pixi Retinol Tonic.
My skin is far less dehyrated than it has been recently and all of these have really helped as well as drinking crap loads of water.

Tant yeah I really need to up my water intake - I'm a shocker for getting a disproportionate amount of my liquid from Yorkshire tea! I really should know better :)

Sallie I do feel like my skin has changed over the last few years, getting a little more sensitive and drier, and of course since losing weight recently, my sagging facial skin and wrinkles have become more obvious - it really seems to be true that after a certain age you have to choose between your face or your arse!

My skin is definitely getting drier Tant though that’s a positive for me as I was too oily, with hindsight I think that was mainly due to using the wrong products. I’d say I’m combo now.

Also agree about weight, I do want/need to lose some but don’t think I’d suit being at a size 8 anymore, my face would definitely suffer! So yes face over arse for me - or more accurately face over thighs

I'm having a lot of success with QRXLabs. Much better than the ordinary and around the same price. The high % acid peels are fab. Sadly, the super high % are only available in America.

Does anyone know how long vitamin c, once applied to skin, takes to oxidise?
I know it is heat and light sensitive and I remember destroying vitamin c in the lab as a student with heat.
But is it worth applying and expecting much out of the unstable ascorbic acid form? Anyone?

Nabootique it might be worth seeing another gp or a consultant about the stroke risk with migraine.

I had to see a Neurologist last week and she told me that the stroke risk is now not regarded as being as high as previously thought. In V simple terms, so I could understand it, they used to think that long term migraine would lead to a cluster of migraines followed by stroke. With increased and better brain scanning it is clear the a lot of the 'migraines' that people reported prior to the stroke that put them in hospital were actually mini strokes.
In my case it means I can take HRT for as long as I want despite 48 years of migraine.
So it might be worth talking to someone who specialises.

My skin is definitely improving but I'm now trying to figure out if I can improve on the texture issues/filaments 🤔

Thanks Pickled. That's interesting. I have been thinking of changing surgeries as my current one isn't the nearest one to me now I've moved, so might be able to get a second opinion.

Hello everyone 
Has anyone used DE vitamin C as well as the Skinceuticals one and is able to give me a comparison? Thank you!

Biologi I don’t really know re Vit c and oxidising on skin, there’s loads of info about it oxidising in the bottle and how to store it etc, but not much about on the skin - did find this one though which talks about how to prevent oxidisation and using forms of Vit c which are not actually ascorbic acid.

labmuffin.com/vitamin-c-can-stain-skin-avoid/

Reading that, I’m wondering if Vit c maybe oxidises very quickly on my skin which is why I find it irritating and why I’m ok with the medik8 c tetra.

Hi Sophie 👋
I’ve never used either of those, hopefully someone more helpful will be along soon

That’s great that you’ve found a routine that works for you Koko
I like cerave pm as I just find it a nice gentle unscented moisturiser that doesn’t make me oily or give me spots. The niacinamide and ceramides are an added bonus but I’m not sure if the amount in cerave is enough to give any amazing results or if you’d need a standalone serum. I tried the Ordinary niacinamide and zinc serum, found it sticky/tacky and it didn’t seem to do anything so haven’t tried any others.

Thanks sali
I think from limited investigations it is probably like an unstable SPF and after an hour or two on skin it has oxidised - and turned orangey. Hence the glow reported.
There are lots of more stable antioxidants around so I wonder why vit c is so popular but if it is going orange it might explain the popularity. I don’t know.

And I really like the lab muffin website so thanks for that.

www.boots.com/boots-expert-sensitive-face-wash-soothing-aloe-vera-150ml--10247148

Is this cleanser any good?.

Thank you Sallie 

Pigeon, I always thought the Beautypie setup is a bit of a false economy. The shipping isn't included and you probably end up spending more than anticipated with the monthly costs. It may be high end formulations according to them but you're getting quite basic packaging. Also the monthly allowance doesn't give much room to buy skincare. Also, I would take the MN reviews of BP with a heavy dose of salt, they're one of the biggest offenders with planting fake reviews on this board.

Trucking the higher strength peels are available on eBay (from a London based seller). Overall I have to say I was somewhat disappointed in QRXlabs when I had a look previously as they contain a lot of common irritants and comodonogenic ingredients (essential oils and coconut oil) whilst presenting themselves as a 'clinical' brand. Also a bit about the names of some things like the skin lightening serum. What have you been using of theirs?

Biologi, I'm going to be woolly on the science as it's a while since I read up on it but as I understand it the whole purpose of Vit C on the face is that it's supposed to oxidise as it neutralises free radicals so your precious DNA, lipids, etc. aren't damaged. Hence why there's a lot of questions whether L-AA in stable suspensions actually are effective, more likely you're just washing of the stable product at the end of the day. Formulation is everything with Vit C, there are definitely some that made me a bit orange they tended to be anhydrous formulations.

Lab muffin is indeed great, if you're properly into science nerdery it's also worth checking out Kind of Stephen's blog.

Koko, so glad to hear you're getting on so well The Cerave PM contains 5% Niacinamide, the manufacturer has indicated as much when asked, which is the percentage all research was done with. Anything higher isn't necessarily better but does raise the potential for irritation. When I wrote that sheet Cerave PM was quite affordable and easy to get, that was before Cerave was launched here, ever since the price has sky rocketed, I'll have to adjust the sheet to include the euro version Sallie found (I think) do you mind linking it again?

Actually came on to post Dr. Dray's Q&A for Soolantra. Full disclosure I have no financial interest in Soolantra... I'm aware I'm becoming a bit of a drug pusher

Sophie, I've only tried the Skinceuticals CE ferulic. Thought a trusted blogger had compared the two as I know she's used both but I can't find it. WRT SC it remains the best Vit C I've ever tried, it did it all and actively improved skin texture and tone which no other Vit C has done for me. I object to its price though, the Vichy comes very close but that isn't really that much cheaper and more fiddly to store and keep from oxidising.

Fluffy, hard to say on the basis of the INCI alone. You'll like go through it quickly as there aren't that many ingredients in it of which a lot is water and glycerin. A few ingredients typical of cheaper formulations, and a lot of preservatives which puzzle me somewhat. I wouldn't recommend it for truly sensitive skin, rarely can that type of skin deal with cheaper formulations. The Aloe is a bit of nonsense advertising, there's hardly any of it, otherwise probably an innocuous cleanser for not so problematic skin that can react to common irritants.

I've started using the Paula's choice BHA. Making a huge difference to my skin

Routine now

Am
Boots botanics lotion cleanser
A boots AHA type oil serum (am testing it!)
Alpha H hydration cream
SPF if I'm out

Pm
Boots eye makeup remover
Cerave cleanser or a balm or Dr Sam cleanser
Thayers rose toner
Paula's choice BHA OR retinol 0.5% OR la belle lune oil (I rotate 3 nightly)
Face theory moisturiser

Does anyone find they just can't use any form of retinol on their skin? I think I may be coming to the conclusion for myself, I'm using the 3tr and it's not causing any irritation whatsoever but I do seem to get breakouts and congestion more when I've used it, not sure if the two are linked or not though 🤔.

This is going to sound like a really silly question but how do you apply your moisturisers/serums? Do you dot all over face or warm in fingertips first? Do you massage in circular motion or pat or in a downwards motion?

Bo I can’t remember where I got my cerave from someone here gave me the link but it wasn’t a site I was familiar with or have used since and I can’t find the order email.

Both Feelunique and lookfantastic had it on their websites at one point as I found it there when Koko was first asking, but now seems to have disappeared (should have ordered when I saw it ) so we’re stuck with amazon again - unless whoever gave me the link has a better memory than me and can post it.

I seem quite retinol tolerant Mint apart from the expected mild peeling I’ve never had any major issues as long as I don’t use a BHA, then my skin looks like it’s going to fall off even if I leave a gap of a few nights between them.

Vit c was my nemesis but I’m happy with medik8, thank you for your review of that one which pushed me into actually trying it after swithering over it for ages.

I put the required amount of moisturiser or serum etc in my hand and use my fingers to dot all over my face, then massage in with a circular motion but more up than down if that makes sense? I always hope that a sort of upwards massage might help with sagging but I’m sure that’s just wishful thinking.

Bo Thank you.

Mint I never got past the purge with retin a, I’ve avoided retinol in case it happens again.