Called a slag by BF's son...

[noonesayscheese]

A lot of detail to avoid drip feeding. Not sure if this belongs in step parenting as he’s technically not my stepson…

Me and my DD12 live separately to my boyfriend (of 6 years). BF has a son from previous marriage; DS13. We all hang out a lot and my BF and his son are at my house a lot as it’s generally more spacious than his flat. BF works away a fair bit so when he’s back he spends a lot of time with us. It’s a set up that suits us and we’re talking about buying a bigger property together next year. We all get along. We had a day out to Alton Towers on Saturday and me and BF’s son separated off from my DD and BF as we wanted to go on some rides that they were not interested in. He confides in me and I get the impression that he values our time together when it’s just me and him, he was telling me about his new girlfriend. On Sunday we were all in my house and BF’s son was watching a football match on the TV, that we’d bought ‘pay per view’ as a treat. His team were losing and he was getting more and more moody and told my daughter to fuck off because she was asking why he’s so upset. His dad told him off and said if he talks like that again, the TV will go off. He then told his dad to fuck off and he’d watch it on his phone. His dad took his phone off him. At this point he was telling his dad to F off over and over and saying he hates it at my house. He went into the other room and started crying so his dad went after him. My daughter asked why he’s being like that and I said I don’t know as it’s just a game. The son then raged and shouted at me to “fuck off yer slag”. It was said very aggressively. His dad then took him home. BF spoke to his mum who said it’s just his hormones and used “boys will be boys” to qualify it. She also said that he often says that I am horrible to him and I wind him up whenever I’m with him. This surprised me as I absolutely do not and I believe he gives his mum this narrative.

I can cope with a 13 year old telling me to F off, but the slag comment was made so easily, as if he just pulled it from his every day vocabulary and I wonder if he talks like this normally, with his friends. I’ve raised my daughter to not engage with toxic behaviour and saying that to a woman is designed to belittle her. She’s understandably upset that he called her mother a slag. She’s old enough and very emotionally mature to know her mind.

BF’s son has always gone from 0-60 with his anger, he has punched classmates and his pushed his own mum in a fit of rage. He’s tried to hit his dad in the past (BF able to dodge the attempts). He hasn’t apologised to me and in his mum’s words, it was my fault and I deserved his anger because I should know it’s more than a game to him.

Going forward, what do I do. My daughter wants nothing to do with him. I am concerned that he can just use language like that and his mum thinks it’s someone else’s fault. My BF is as dumbfounded as me. I don’t really want that sort of behaviour in my home. BF is now away for two weeks and I won’t see his son until he’s home, I feel like the bond and trust that me and BF’s son had is now destroyed. PS, we have tried to meet with the mum in the past, but she’s always refused to meet me, so meeting up to discuss this is not an option. Whenever I’ve dropped off BF’s son to her house, I’m mostly met with a look of contempt.

He sounds like an angry young man. I wonder where that comes from. I'd get the BF to ask his son what he wants to happen next, now that he's destroyed you and DD's trust in him. Does he want to rebuild it? Does he want to spend time with you again, or would he prefer to see his dad on his own?

I don't think it's unusual for a child to go home and paint a horrible picture of a step-parent to their mother or father- They think it's what they want to hear, and that certainly seems the case here. I don't think he'd get a good reception at home if he told his mother that you were great and that you had a right laugh together.

One point though- I do think that your daughter sounds like she was goading him by asking why he was upset about the football. She knew why he was upset. And then she asked again, to you this time, to which you replied about it being "only a game"- I just don't get why you'd make a comment like that to someone who's having a meltdown. I think it was unnecessary.

No excuse for any of it but he is just a 13 year old kid, with hormones raging through his body. It sounds like theirs much more going on. Does he every ask to come to yours/speak/text when his dad isn't about? Does he want 1to1 with his dad. What's his life like at home? Also he probably doesn't think your a stag just using it as a way to hurt you. What do you want to happen. If he's made to apologise, is that enough, even if he doesn't mean it.

At least your OH is on the same page as you. There's not much you can do about his mother. I'd suggest that going forward your OH sees his son at his own flat and spends time at yours when SS is at his mum's. Your situation is much simpler than if you lived together. At least the option is there for him to see his son away from you and DD.

It's a shame as it sounded like you had a nice relationship before all this. Maybe things will change in the future. Maybe the separation will make him thinking about his behaviour and treatment of you. But for now you need to protect yourself and your DD from this behaviour.

I wouldn't want my daughter around this. At all.

He doesn't actually think you're a slag, so I wouldn't take that to heart. It is hormones, teens from the age of 13 to 15 are generally dickheads, but they can't always help it. The chemical changes are similar to PMS on steroids or being pregnant, so we have to give them some grace.

However, if this became a regular thing it would be different. I'd also point out that you and your DD openly questioning his feelings and reactions was adding fuel to flames when he was already wound up, he probably felt ganged up on and mocked. You should have been more aware than that.

I've had a teen bursting into tears, swearing and slamming doors because DH laughed at his bad loser reaction when he lost in a video game.

Reduce the time you spend as a 4 until he matures a bit - sounds a bit intense

I know it's alot to ask as you have your daughter etc, but on the inside this kid is hurting. Saying slag just isn't ok no matter how angry he is.

Would you be willing to take him out for a drink or wherever you go together and talk with him. Just ask him for the truth and what's going on. We are never prepared as adults to really hear the truth and expect kids to just conform. That is then your opportunity to add in about using the word slag and how hurtful that is to all women.

I totally appreciate this may be beyond what you want to do or signed up to emotionally but making this boy feel accepted whilst setting boundaries is going to be the best option.

As an avid fan I wouldn't be happy if people were asking why I was upset if during a much look forward to match (assuming Man U v LFC) when my team was losing. Then having people say they were going to turn it off etc and all the associated nonsense. Add into that the fact he is a young hormonal charged teen who had an outburst.

I suspect he felt like you were all goading him. I don't really understand why you feel the need to perpetuate it and surely BF speaks to him about his inappropriate behaviour and language and asks that he apologises (properly). I would speak to your daughter about leaving him alone and not making goady comments during a match which would be important to him.

One point though- I do think that your daughter sounds like she was goading him by asking why he was upset about the football. She knew why he was upset. And then she asked again, to you this time, to which you replied about it being "only a game"- I just don't get why you'd make a comment like that to someone who's having a meltdown. I think it was unnecessary

Or maybe OPs daughter knows it's just a game and couldn't understand why the boy was so upset.

And it is only a game. The quicker the son realises this, the better.

I remember reading something about insults only hurting if a part of us believes them…do you have any feelings of being “not good enough” etc? It seems the word he used is what has upset you the most. Maybe explore your own reaction to this before starting to engage with the BF/boy.

All this talk of 'goading' is ridiculous.
I love football but it is just a game.
He's been punching other people too so this is a pattern.

He'd not be welcome in my house again until he'd apologised to me and my daughter.

Putting the football issue aside, as I think it is genuinely a red herring.

This resonated as classic loyalty bind behaviour. From what you have said, his mother is antagonistic towards you, and will (outright or implicitly) reward him for coming home to her and telling her just how 'horrible' you are / unpleasant towards him. Then - and this is particularly the case when he's likely to be happy / having a nice time with you - the guilt of the loyalty bind kicks in and he lashes out.

Dealt with this a lot over the years, and the best thing is to step back a little bit, let Dad parent him (including specifically addressing violence and that derogatory language towards you and your daughter is unacceptable, and even if he is upset he needs to be civil), and only slowly all come back together again.

This definitely escalated during the early teen years, but did get better. But only you will know whether it's a storm that can be ridden out or has bigger consequences for the relationship.

So it's acceptable for her DD to invalidate her SS feelings? Because its 'just' a game. Who is anyone to determine what is important to another person.

Your hamster died? Oh well its just a hamster.
You curbed your alloy? Oh well its just a car.
You broke your nail? How pathetic its just a nail.

Try not to take it to heart, and encourage your daughter to also be open to rebuilding a relationship with him.

But then make clear to your BF he needs to proactively work with him to deal with anger. Lots of teenage boys really struggle with this. He needs to be communicating that his language wasn't acceptable but also that he needs to find ways of dealing with overwhelming feelings. Could he have gone out into the garden, booted some footballs at a wall etc in that moment instead of taking it out on other people etc? Sounds like the mum won't be interested in helping so this is time for dad to shine.

We spend a lot of time talking to young people about dealing with low mood and anxiety but not anger, I don't know why not.

I have got children the same ages at this, and my son can get wound up easily over things like football or Xbox, they feel important to him. Although he’s never sworn at me or his siblings.
I can see why he/his mum might think that you didn’t help the situation with the ‘why are you upset’ and ‘it’s only a game’ comments. If my daughter were to say that to my son I would tell her to leave him alone and that it’s important to him and she can go in a different room if she doesn’t want to watch it. If he was getting wound up, taking himself off and watching on his phone sounds like an ideal solution to me, it could have avoided escalation. Possibly easier for me as they are both mine with their own room in the house.
The language is another matter, and even as his mum I would be pushing to apologise for that. It’s ok to get wound up but not to be verbally abusive to those in the home. I would suggest that if you get an apology just move on swiftly as he is still just a hormonal child. He was in the moment and needs so handle it better in future but if you know his triggers, you can avoid the situation repeating itself

You should have stopped your daughter when she was goading him. Her behaviour wasn’t acceptable.

I’m not sure were you so from here. He was justifiable in being upset with the goading. The swearing and name calling isn’t acceptable. It sounds like he needs some support dealing with his emotions. His father should discuss this with pastoral support in school.

I would not like being called a slag because it is a sexist slur, nothing to do with my feelings of self worth. In addition, I would not want my DD exposed to that language. If an adult said that to me I would not have them in my house again.

Obviously, the situation here is more complicated because it's a child saying it. I think OP absolutely should be engaging with her BF about his son's behaviour.

Unusually, it sounds as if he's being properly parented by his dad but not by his mum. So your BF should lead on appropriate discipline for his son.

Then you have to decide what you and your DD want to happen in terms of contact going forward. For myself, I'd be expecting a cooling off period followed by a sincere apology. I wouldn't write this boy off forever, but it would make me more cautious about spending more time with him for a while.

This is really, really hard and a situation I think a lot more families face than we know about as many can't talk to anyone about these sort of issues without feeling like they're painting their kids and step kids badly. By issues I mean when suddenly there's teenagers in the house and their values don't align with examples that are at the core of what you consider important. I'd give it some breathing space and do nothing for now. This may allow for him to reflect on his behaviour as ultimately he has to choose to change it. The word slag is vile but hopefully St his age he's very immature and won't continue to use it. His mum sounds like a div what with him punching her and her saying you wind him up, thankfully he has you and your bf to example better behaviour before he's old enough go get a girlfriend or his mum will be a nightmare!

"It's only a game" as spoken by a non Football fan.

The match on Sunday was big, much anticipated game and has a massive impact on the whole season.

OP knew this as the match was purchased as a treat. There was a big build up.

Her DD then proceeded to goad him. Let's turn the tables. Say DD liked Taylor Swift and had tickets and was upset that a rail strike meant she couldn't go. Would it be acceptable for DS to keep saying why are you upset? Would it be acceptable for BF to say its only a concert? Would it be OK to say I am taking your phone off you so your friend can't send you a stream.

What is important to one person isn't to another and the "event" in question is irrelevant. He was upset (and as fan to be understandably so). Insert your own reason for being most likely reasonably for you upset.

What wasn't acceptable was his response to the goading. He needs to apologise for that but then the whole thing needs to be dropped to allow them to all move forward. DD sounds as though she rules the roost in that she was allowed to behave the way she did and also now appears to be calling the shots.

This. Sounds like he's going to be the bloke who gets back from the pub when his team has lost & beats up his girlfriend.

I wouldn't want any part in it. And I'd be talking to your boyfriend about how he can support his son better. Football is clearly not good for him, his energy needs channelling elsewhere.

Goading? The poor girl just asked why he's so upset when his behaviour starts increasing....do grown women really put up with men behaving like this in their own homes over a game of football? We can all be disappointed but to start swearing and having a hissy fit is an entirely different story. Also, if people read the OP correctly, her daughter asked her what was going on when he was in a different room so hardly antagonising is it.

He needs to apologise and apologise fast!

BF’s son has always gone from 0-60 with his anger, he has punched classmates and his pushed his own mum in a fit of rage. He’s tried to hit his dad in the past (BF able to dodge the attempts). He hasn’t apologised to me and in his mum’s words, it was my fault and I deserved his anger because I should know it’s more than a game to him.

That's pretty concerning - esp the physical violence. Can his df access some external help/intervention to address this?

As far as you and your dd are concerned, this is when you need to set very firm boundaries - he should not be welcome
in your house until he has apologised genuinely, and fully understands what for and how toxic this behaviour is. He doesn't seem to have any boundaries set by his mum so it's vital he sees that women do have boundaries that are to be respected.

In the meantime he will have to just see your dp in the flat, and your dp will need to do some very careful parenting.

Absolutely agree. The SS is probably feeling a bit gaslighted and as much a victim as OP. He was provoked into a negative response and then told his negative response wasn't valid.

We can't expect a 13yo boy who has underlying anger issues due to his parents separation and the strained dynamic with his mother, to be able to just regulate his emotions on a whim. I feel sorry for him.