Called a slag by BF's son...

[noonesayscheese]

A lot of detail to avoid drip feeding. Not sure if this belongs in step parenting as he’s technically not my stepson…

Me and my DD12 live separately to my boyfriend (of 6 years). BF has a son from previous marriage; DS13. We all hang out a lot and my BF and his son are at my house a lot as it’s generally more spacious than his flat. BF works away a fair bit so when he’s back he spends a lot of time with us. It’s a set up that suits us and we’re talking about buying a bigger property together next year. We all get along. We had a day out to Alton Towers on Saturday and me and BF’s son separated off from my DD and BF as we wanted to go on some rides that they were not interested in. He confides in me and I get the impression that he values our time together when it’s just me and him, he was telling me about his new girlfriend. On Sunday we were all in my house and BF’s son was watching a football match on the TV, that we’d bought ‘pay per view’ as a treat. His team were losing and he was getting more and more moody and told my daughter to fuck off because she was asking why he’s so upset. His dad told him off and said if he talks like that again, the TV will go off. He then told his dad to fuck off and he’d watch it on his phone. His dad took his phone off him. At this point he was telling his dad to F off over and over and saying he hates it at my house. He went into the other room and started crying so his dad went after him. My daughter asked why he’s being like that and I said I don’t know as it’s just a game. The son then raged and shouted at me to “fuck off yer slag”. It was said very aggressively. His dad then took him home. BF spoke to his mum who said it’s just his hormones and used “boys will be boys” to qualify it. She also said that he often says that I am horrible to him and I wind him up whenever I’m with him. This surprised me as I absolutely do not and I believe he gives his mum this narrative.

I can cope with a 13 year old telling me to F off, but the slag comment was made so easily, as if he just pulled it from his every day vocabulary and I wonder if he talks like this normally, with his friends. I’ve raised my daughter to not engage with toxic behaviour and saying that to a woman is designed to belittle her. She’s understandably upset that he called her mother a slag. She’s old enough and very emotionally mature to know her mind.

BF’s son has always gone from 0-60 with his anger, he has punched classmates and his pushed his own mum in a fit of rage. He’s tried to hit his dad in the past (BF able to dodge the attempts). He hasn’t apologised to me and in his mum’s words, it was my fault and I deserved his anger because I should know it’s more than a game to him.

Going forward, what do I do. My daughter wants nothing to do with him. I am concerned that he can just use language like that and his mum thinks it’s someone else’s fault. My BF is as dumbfounded as me. I don’t really want that sort of behaviour in my home. BF is now away for two weeks and I won’t see his son until he’s home, I feel like the bond and trust that me and BF’s son had is now destroyed. PS, we have tried to meet with the mum in the past, but she’s always refused to meet me, so meeting up to discuss this is not an option. Whenever I’ve dropped off BF’s son to her house, I’m mostly met with a look of contempt.

I think you would do well to put the brakes on and maybe step back for a bit. Certainly put the moving in together plans on hold for a while. Personally, I wouldn't want him back in my house until he'd apologised/written an apology note. It sounds like your BF was parenting appropriately and responding to the behaviour sensibly so I imagine he would support you if you insisted on this.

Right?! Domestic violence goes up hugely when a team loses a game. Thin edge of the wedge.

I agree. While it would have been nice for everyone to get along, I don't think this is likely to happen any time soon. Get your dp spend time with his son on his own at least for the next few months and then maybe very gradually reintroduce time together (if at all). It's not fair on your dd to have to curb her own personality in order not to provoke his anger. Instead, spend time with her doing really positive things with her and her friends.

To me (with one teenager dd and one younger son) this behaviour is absolutely not OK and it sounds like there are a few people in his life who excuse it as just normal teenage behaviour.

@Neverpostagain please do that.

Just a beautiful post. Bears repeating.

@Neverpostagain, you said: “They were all goading him. They found something that he really cared about and had looked forward to and deliberately mocked him when it didn't work out as he hoped. Wankers. OP what does your daughter care about? Being invited to the party maybe, having to wear braces? Be sure to mock her for being upset if she doesn't get invited or has wonky teeth!”

My DD was not goading BF’s son. Goading is to annoy/provoke a person for a reaction. She literally asked him ONCE what was up, why he was upset, as she’d just come back in the room and seen he was upset. Was this goading? No. Then his fuck offs ensued. He was out of the room and I said to DD that, in answer to her question, I don’t know why he’s upset as it’s just a game. I did post this as an update at 14:11, but I don’t think you’ve read it. The ‘wankers’ comment is a little much.

The irony of your username after a comment like that...

So when he's up in front of a judge in years to come for lashing out at someone, he should just say 'well it's something I really cared about and the nasty people upset me, so I hurt them back'?

Or when he's lay in a hospital bed in a coma because he spoke like shit to the wrong person, his DPs and SM will say 'he only told them to fuck off and called someone a slag. Boys will be boys!'?

There was no goading going on, no one was mocking him or his team. This wasn't a premeditated and targeted attack on a poor young teenage boy. A question was asked of what he was upset about by someone who wasn't aware of the situation. A comment was made when he left the room, after already starting his extreme temper tantrum. He chose to engage in this vile behaviour. Note that he didn't use vile name calling as a retort towards his father...

Personally OP, I'd be banning all watching of football under my roof IF you choose to let him back in. And that's a big if. I have 2 DSS, 1 a teen. If either of them ever spoke to or about me in that way, they wouldn't be allowed back in my house until they'd done some serious work on themselves. And if their DF didn't support me on that, he would be gone as well.

As women, we set the bar for how much we will tolerate. After growing up surrounded by violent men of varying ages and seeing where the behaviour starts (long before being called a slag, FYI), my bar is pretty low. You also have the added pressure of setting the standards for your daughter here.

Choose wisely.

I’ve a 14 yo and 16yo and hate the boys will be boys thing. Hormones are crazy and I’ve seen my own son seem to be shocked as he shouted at us but the anger you say he has- I’ve seen that too and now the f word is so normal in society that it comes out. As you said horrible that he even thought to use the slag word- I was shocked my son pulled c word out of his vocabulary but it’s honestly not used around here so you don’t know where he might have got it or maybe he knew it’s an awful word and wants to get the maximum rise from you. We are talking with my son a lot about anger, Id definitely say your bf and ex need to start talking more and acknowledging that that anger shouldn’t be usual. I’m sorry she said he said that, he may not have said it or he may just be trying to stop her being upset he’s at his dad’s. Hope it all works out for you all and you can keep the relationship you have with him. x

You're projecting quite a lot onto a barely pubescent kid here, who in your view clearly has no space to grow or change...do you subscribe to the "kill them in their cots" view of male children?

As a teacher I'm not really allowed to share your stance...

I actually cannot believe some of the replies on here.

They were goading him, gaslighting him, mocking him, deliberately being nasty to him, pushing him over the edge so he would snap. Oh he's just a little boy, he must be really sad and traumatised. Oh he's a boy, you must get the kid gloves out. But it's football, it's emotional viewing. You non football fans wouldn't understand.

Listen to yourselves. This is a 13 year old boy telling a 12 yo to fuck off and calling an adult a slag.

No excuse. His little feet wouldn't have touched the ground if that had been me. Speak to my DD and myself like that and you don't get another chance.

This needs to be dealt with asap or he'll just be another adult man with anger problems 🙄

@Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo I absolutely agree with you that people can grow and change. My point is that women and girls should not be expected shoulder any of the burden when it comes to trying to teach men and boys to stop being violent and misogynistic.

Let me use a biology analogy as you seem to appreciate that. Would you recommend that a zebra tries to reason with a lion and tries to teach it to alter its ways? I'm guessing not.

The fact of the matter is that the single biggest threat to women is men. Yes that's grim and unpalatable. But it's true. And to attempt to make women in any way responsible for trying to manage male behaviour is appalling. As a teacher you may need to do that as a part of your job, but I sincerely hope you do not take that viewpoint home and expect the women around you to do that additional labour.

And of course I do not think that all male children should be killed in their cots, how ridiculous.

But I do think that all female children should be able to exist in a world where they are not at constant threat of abuse, harassment, rape and death by men. And I have absolutely no time for any woman who tries to make male behaviour another woman's responsibility.

I think this is important - at 13 the kid will be going through puberty big time, testosterone surges etc, all of which cause massive mood swings and aggressive outbursts. I think he many need some understanding.

I also wonder whether he ever gets to just spend 1-2-1 time with dad in OHs flat? Boys, esp ones at this stage of development, need bonding time with just dad. The footie might have worked better as a dad n son thing at OH’s house, rather than at OP’s with OP/DD not really being that bothered about the game. Does he spend all his contact time with his dad at yours, or even most of it? If so, he may feel that he is really not that important to his dad, or certainly less important than you. That’s obviously not true, but hormones/age/shared custody may skew his perception of this. In his mind, you are (as you’ve said, OP) not actually his SM, so why does his have to share all/most of his dad time with you?

I’d suggest that when OH comes home, he schedule a boys only weekend and focus on their relationship, maybe have a chat about what he said to you/his behaviour. Explain how hurtful it was and that it can’t happen again. Then, hopefully you can start again - with protected dad/son time away from your place going forward?

If your OH can sort that out, then I would try to rise above what he did and said, and give him another chance. He’s a kid. Puberty is shit for boys too. You also don’t know whether Mum has been dropping poison in his ear about you, OP, as she may be a bit jealous of the bond you had before all this kicked off.

You forgot the 'it's because he's from a broken home' drum that's being beaten too... Which obviously doesn't apply to OPs child because she's a female!!

I am honestly embarrassed to be a woman based on some of these replies!

I think the point is that at 13 there is hope to change this / address the behaviour. If it's a grown man who has been doing this without consequence for most his life I'd be thinking 'forget it'.

I know an adult man like this who is abusive, particularly during football! They can bugger right off. A kid, no, I would see this differently.

I'd absolutely speak with the dad about how to both support and make the boy accountable for the use of language like that. I'd also be really curious to know where this all comes from. This viewpoint, this reference to a woman as a slag. It's not a commonly used word anymore so where has he heard this from. If she wants a relationship long term with boyfriend it's the right thing to do. But OP may not want to take all that on which is absolutely her choice to make.

@Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo

I've taught plenty of boys who have been quite nasty pieces of work around this age, and yes that includes being very rude and even physically aggressive with me, who have improved a lot by sixth form. I haven't felt a lot of affection for them, but it's my job as a teacher and an adult to try to facilitate that process, both with discipline but also encouragement that they are better people than their behaviour suggests. Sorry if you find that offensive.

I don't find that offensive, I'm not sure why you think I should?

You're a trained teacher facilitating the ongoing development of children in their most difficult years.

I'm not sure what relevance that has to the fact I am troubled by you suggesting OP encourages her daughter to be open to rebuilding a relationship with a teen who currently has violent outbursts, has punched his own mum and has called her mum a slag.

Him and his dad can work on his wellbeing and anger control. Her daughter doesn't need to be part of the process and shouldn't be made to feel she needs to be open to rebuilding a relationship with someone who is currently not a safe person.

He's a teen, he will very likely grow out of this stage I absolutely agree. Would I want my daughter exposed to his current behaviour, at an incredibly shaping time of her life when it comes to her understanding of relationship dynamics / abusive behaviour / boundaries / red flags etc if not absolutely necessary? Nah.

This in spades.

@BusyMummy001

Hi, I have provided info regarding this. I said "Also, BF and his son spend ample 1:1 time together, often go out just them for a meal or the cinema, or just at their flat, or cheering him on at his football team he plays in."

Thank you.

I wouldn’t have him in the house for the next 12 months and I wouldn’t meet as a four for at least 6 months. Have nothing to do with him.

I wouldn't be training my daughter to tiptoe around aggressive males.

@Spirallingdownwards

I would speak to your daughter about leaving him alone and not making goady comments during a match which would be important to him.

She didn't goad him. She asked once what was wrong.

How utterly depressing you'd tell your daughter to tip toe around a man watching football to avoid him being violent or calling her names. Good grief.

Given that this violent boy has no hesitation with assaulting his classmates and parents, I wouldn't let him anywhere near my 12 year old daughter. He would be banned from my home.

Well that will be the end of the OP relationship altogether then. What a childish response.

Your stepson splits his time between two households. What is his life like with Mum? Does she have a partner, has she in the past? New children/siblings?

Your boyfriend needs to take the lead with his son, and consider speaking with the school to see whether there is an impartial adult who can be made available to him, to help him navigate his feelings and emotions - and how to express these.

It's a 13 year old boy, let's not lump him in the "all men are evil" category just yet! My eldest was a right pain at 13, I really didn't like him for a while, but now he's turned into a fantastic young man. Your DSS's appalling language was addressed quite rightly by his dad at the time. I'm not a football fan but I can imagine your comment of "it's only a game" really didn't help. No doubt your DD will experience hormones and say hurtful things as she gets older. Teenagers test the patience of most parents. I'd move on. The worst thing you can do is hold it against him forever, you're the adult don't forget! You may have known him for 6 years but he's now entering a more challenging lifestage and you and your DP may need to adjust your setup accordingly. I'd suggest as others have, that you see your DP mainly when his son is at his mother's, particularly as he ends up having to spend time in your house rather than you and your DD going to his dad's flat. Might just be for a year or so then things may improve.

Try telling that to the thousand and thousands out there who worship the game.