Called a slag by BF's son...

[noonesayscheese]

A lot of detail to avoid drip feeding. Not sure if this belongs in step parenting as he’s technically not my stepson…

Me and my DD12 live separately to my boyfriend (of 6 years). BF has a son from previous marriage; DS13. We all hang out a lot and my BF and his son are at my house a lot as it’s generally more spacious than his flat. BF works away a fair bit so when he’s back he spends a lot of time with us. It’s a set up that suits us and we’re talking about buying a bigger property together next year. We all get along. We had a day out to Alton Towers on Saturday and me and BF’s son separated off from my DD and BF as we wanted to go on some rides that they were not interested in. He confides in me and I get the impression that he values our time together when it’s just me and him, he was telling me about his new girlfriend. On Sunday we were all in my house and BF’s son was watching a football match on the TV, that we’d bought ‘pay per view’ as a treat. His team were losing and he was getting more and more moody and told my daughter to fuck off because she was asking why he’s so upset. His dad told him off and said if he talks like that again, the TV will go off. He then told his dad to fuck off and he’d watch it on his phone. His dad took his phone off him. At this point he was telling his dad to F off over and over and saying he hates it at my house. He went into the other room and started crying so his dad went after him. My daughter asked why he’s being like that and I said I don’t know as it’s just a game. The son then raged and shouted at me to “fuck off yer slag”. It was said very aggressively. His dad then took him home. BF spoke to his mum who said it’s just his hormones and used “boys will be boys” to qualify it. She also said that he often says that I am horrible to him and I wind him up whenever I’m with him. This surprised me as I absolutely do not and I believe he gives his mum this narrative.

I can cope with a 13 year old telling me to F off, but the slag comment was made so easily, as if he just pulled it from his every day vocabulary and I wonder if he talks like this normally, with his friends. I’ve raised my daughter to not engage with toxic behaviour and saying that to a woman is designed to belittle her. She’s understandably upset that he called her mother a slag. She’s old enough and very emotionally mature to know her mind.

BF’s son has always gone from 0-60 with his anger, he has punched classmates and his pushed his own mum in a fit of rage. He’s tried to hit his dad in the past (BF able to dodge the attempts). He hasn’t apologised to me and in his mum’s words, it was my fault and I deserved his anger because I should know it’s more than a game to him.

Going forward, what do I do. My daughter wants nothing to do with him. I am concerned that he can just use language like that and his mum thinks it’s someone else’s fault. My BF is as dumbfounded as me. I don’t really want that sort of behaviour in my home. BF is now away for two weeks and I won’t see his son until he’s home, I feel like the bond and trust that me and BF’s son had is now destroyed. PS, we have tried to meet with the mum in the past, but she’s always refused to meet me, so meeting up to discuss this is not an option. Whenever I’ve dropped off BF’s son to her house, I’m mostly met with a look of contempt.

@Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo I am honestly so tired of hearing about how much all the ickle men and boys struggle with their anger and we must fall over ourselves trying to find out why and get to the bottom of it. And all the women who continue to excuse this frankly dangerous behaviour should be ashamed of themselves.

I get angry too. Enraged. I've never punched anyone. I've wanted to but never have. Neither has any woman I know. But the men I know? I'd be hard pushed to find one who has not reacted physically to his emotions. I wonder why that is?

His behaviour was unacceptable- his Dad did the right thing removing his phone, turning off the match and leaving your home. He should be made to apologise to you and your daughter once he's calmed down, but I wouldn't leave it so long that the issue festers

The first poster was correct that his dad should speak to him about whether he feels more 1:1 time together is needed. I would add the history of angry behaviour strongly suggests something else is going on in the background, so I hope Dad is also going to discuss that with him if it's not already being looked in to (and it should be). Although he was old enough to know better, he is still a child who is in need of professional help. And this is getting urgent- he is a growing, hormonal young boy who before long could cause serious damage if he can't learn to control his anger in a productive way

I would also being putting the breaks on any thought of moving in together for now- partly as I think it would be unfair to have your daughter around an angry person but also because I think it may be too much for this young boy who is need of serious help

I was assuming OP wanted to continue her relationship with the BF. Going to be quite hard otherwise to keep the two kids totally separate for another 6 or so years until they move out.

I've taught plenty of boys who have been quite nasty pieces of work around this age, and yes that includes being very rude and even physically aggressive with me, who have improved a lot by sixth form. I haven't felt a lot of affection for them, but it's my job as a teacher and an adult to try to facilitate that process, both with discipline but also encouragement that they are better people than their behaviour suggests. Sorry if you find that offensive.

Clearly no one and it's not the op's responsibility.

Because none of them had effective, hands on fathers who taught them how to recognise and manage their emotions, rather than inflicting them on others?

@noonesayscheese

BF’s son has always gone from 0-60 with his anger, he has punched classmates and his pushed his own mum in a fit of rage. He’s tried to hit his dad in the past (BF able to dodge the attempts). He hasn’t apologised to me and in his mum’s words, it was my fault and I deserved his anger because I should know it’s more than a game to him.

I would seriously reconsider the idea of blending families and all moving in together any time soon. It's far too soon for a confused but violent child to live in the same as two other females, one a child. A child who's also violent to his own father who, one day, won't duck out of the way fast enough.

Is the current plan that the son stays either you and your daughter when it's his contact time but he's away?

Also, as already mentioned, the father needs to spend more dedicated 1:1 time with his son, especially if there are frequent times the father is away for periods of time and can't see his son. 🌹

@Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo so then take it up with the men! Stop expecting women to facilitate, excuse, endure, put up with or otherwise experience male anger!

This is not the OP's responsibility. It's not her daughter's responsibility. And frankly, I'd be damned if I was going to waste my time and energies on trying to fix this kid's attitude when I have my own child, my own life and my own needs to prioritise.

Stop asking women to do all the labour.

And on a separate note, I had completely disengaged parents. Guess what? I still did not behave violently. Why? Because I would not have been given a free pass by society to do so. I am not a man, so I was always expected to manage my emotions, and "boys will be boys" did not apply to me unfortunately.

I don't pity anyone who resorts to violence, unless in self defense. I pity their victims. Perhaps you should consider becoming a prison visitor as you have such empathy for violent males.

He wouldn't be coming in my house again until he learns some respect.

Does his Dad not live there?

No, his dad has his own flat - read the OP.

Why is everyone blaming the daughter? The boy sounds bloody awful and wouldn't be welcome in my house ever again. My ds was miserable and angry as hell when he was 13 but he would never ever say those words to someone.

Further context in regard to a PP: the son hasn't really known his mum and dad being 'together' as they split up when he was 2 and doesn't remember them being together. Whether or not he has issues about his parents not being together is something to consider but his dad being with me since he was 7 is normal for him.

Also, BF and his son spend ample 1:1 time together, often go out just them for a meal or the cinema, or just at their flat, or cheering him on at his football team he plays in.

I am concerned about his son's 0-60 temper, especially with football. He gets very angry very easily and smashes his hands on tables when his team are losing, shouting and swearing, he has even said he wishes Everton fans to be dead (he's a Liverpool fan). I appreciate that he won't have meant it, but still, is this where the future issues start.

To touch on my 'in addition' post above, DD asked him once why he was upset as she was genuinely concerned and just came back in the room, so I am thankful that the comments that DD's 'goady' behaviour was unacceptable have stopped, as she wasn't goading him at all. Genuinely asking a person why they're upset is not goading.

He's crossed a line and I do want a face to face apology. I'm happy to put the brakes on buying a bigger house together until he can demonstrate he is maturing and doesn't resort to aggressive abusive language as an outlet.

Where did DD invalidate her SS feelings? I didn't get that from the OP at all. DD was asking why he was upset. I replied to the PP who said it wasn't right that DD was goading SS.

No matter what the situation was SS needs to learn how to manage his emotions. I know he's just a teenage boy with hormones flying about but he can't be telling a 12 yo to fuck off and calling his dad's gf a slag because he's upset.

Unless he had money on his team to win and he'd just lost all his worldly goods 😁

This ⬆️

I agree. I don’t see where she was goading him at all, she was simply asking him why he was upset. When did Mumsnet start blaming a female for an angry response from a male? It’s a bloody stupid game.
Thank God his df seems to be a decent dad and isn’t backing him up.
I would absolutely want a decent apology from him and if it happened again he wouldn’t be coming back, although I think the dd should have an input too.
And stop blaming hormones! My ds hasn’t had the easiest childhood, but hell would freeze over before he would even dream of speaking to a girl or woman like that, and I don’t think he’s alone among his friends.

Don’t need to, you answered for me 😘

I am concerned about his son's 0-60 temper, especially with football. He gets very angry very easily and smashes his hands on tables when his team are losing, shouting and swearing, he has even said he wishes Everton fans to be dead

Where in the fuck is his father when this is going on, and why isn't he dealing with it? Why is a child allowed to repeatedly behave this way? Why have you allowed this kind of behaviour in your home? Why are you with a man who is such an ineffectual, lazy parent?

It's baffling, and it's no wonder why this boy has become as dangerous, disrespectful and as violent as he is.

What’s the point in a face to face apology that he doesn’t mean? It’s redundant.

Can you all just agree not to watch football together?

If you want your daughter to be happy and protected, it would be just you and her. If not, she will see the toxicity and misogyny of men in her home, facilitated by you bringing it into her safe space. You can save her from having to be witness to this behaviour. Your daughter is your top priority.

I literally said it was the dad's job in the post you took issue with -"But then make clear to your BF he needs to proactively work with him to deal with anger. Lots of teenage boys really struggle with this. He needs to be communicating that his language wasn't acceptable but also that he needs to find ways of dealing with overwhelming feelings. Could he have gone out into the garden, booted some footballs at a wall etc in that moment instead of taking it out on other people etc? Sounds like the mum won't be interested in helping so this is time for dad to shine."

I agree male aggression is often given a pass in society. More than that, I'd say male aggression (often presented as assertiveness or displays of power) is often celebrated - we celebrate war heroes and aggressive businessmen and world leaders; we tell young men they need to take control and pursue the women they are interested in; Hans Solo grabbing Leia for a kiss etc etc. There are few men celebrated for being self controlled and considerate of others... Boys absorb all this. But it's also a nonsense to pretend testosterone has no role in aggression; it's biological fact.

They were all goading him. They found something that he really cared about and had looked forward to and deliberately mocked him when it didn't work out as he hoped. Wankers. OP what does your daughter care about? Being invited to the party maybe, having to wear braces? Be sure to mock her for being upset if she doesn't get invited or has wonky teeth!

Thanks for the update OP. I'm glad to hear that you will consider holding off on moving in together- your daughter shouldn't have to put up with this sort of behaviour in her own home

The apology to you and your daughter is important to show both him and your daughter that our actions have consequences and behaviour is held to account

I hope this latest incident will spur your partner in to action to get his son some proper help. The pattern of violent behaviour is concerning and DP needs to act now

No I have empathy for a child who is clearly struggling with his emotions and needs help processing them in order to improve his behaviour, having experienced this behaviour from my own SS.

This has nothing to do with sex, many teen girls go through the same. Your man hating is shining through.

What a warped perspective to suggest I'd like criminals as a response. 😳

@Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo the fact that you keep deflecting says a lot. You might be happy to absorb male anger and exert your energies on trying to stop males acting aggressively but thankfully a lot of women are now waking up to the utter foolishness of that.

The OP should not continue to have a violent, misogynistic and no doubt increasingly bigger male in her home as he will present an increasing danger to her and her daughter.

And stop with the biology nonsense. We're not apes. Men CAN control their anger, they are often utterly selective with their anger. I am yet to see a man attempt to punch a man bigger and stronger than him, no matter how angry he gets. Men rarely rant and rave at their bosses. Or people in power etc. No, they save their anger and their violence for those they perceive as weaker, which is often women and children.

It's not about biology, it's about opportunistic displays of dominance and aggression aimed at subduing women and those perceived as weaker than them. It's precise and calculated. And you need to stop excusing it.