How much do I owe his kids?

[hilfehilfehilfe]

I am 26. My partner is 32. He earns more than I do but not loads. We have been together since summer 2019. Was not the OW. He has 3 kids from his marriage and they are 5, 7 and 8. I met them Dec 20. I love him a lot but I am starting to feel trapped and unhappy and worried that this is just how my life is going to be forever now. DP is great, thoughtful, supportive and absolutely adores me.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce. They never communicate so they would have to be very serious for DP to even have heard of his existence. He has done very little research about divorce and is overall just concerned about not being able to afford it. I am unhappy and ashamed of this and have told him so.

He has a large amount of debt (~£15k) that he is paying off in the agreed installments. He has done no research or work to look into paying this off faster.

He doesn't parent as I would want to. I do not want children so this is not as big an issue as it might be. I think he wants a blended family with me taking on more of a step mum role. I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself. His contribution is he buys 2/3s(ish) of our groceries as he is meant to be clearing his debt. He is currently in a good financial position (i.e. not going into his overdraft each month and living within his paycheque but not able to save etc.). We moved in together into this house May 21. I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out - but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'.

I feel like I went from an individual person to a homeowner, breadwinner, provider and stepmum in the space of a few months. I don't think I want to break up but I do want to go back to being just an individual person in with my own space. I just don't know what I owe his children - their friends are on this street, their bedrooms are here. They love me, they love our life here and they are settled and very happy. I feel horribly guilty to even have wobbles about my relationship with their dad. I feel horrible about turfing DP out too and think it would damage our relationship perhaps fatally but I just feel like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change. How do I do the right thing by the kids - can I say it's just him that moves out, and he can still have them here during his contact time?

Please help. What's fair of me to do. I don't want to hurt anyone but I can't remember the last time I was happy.

@BlackIsQueen

Has there ever been a thread with such a unified voice?

No and it's doubtful it will happen again but you know I think we all think of the children in our life's or maybe our younger selves and hope to save another from living a half life.

Personally I think op should be congratulated on doing what I previously thought was impossible 😂

@HilifesProudMama you sound awesome and so does your daughter

Hilife is stronger and more of 'a catch' than she can imagine. She will learn and grow from this, however it turns out, with our support and love, and the world will be a joyful place once again

With a mother like you @HilifesProudMama, I'm not surprised - & we could all see how much of a 'catch' she is. She's probably the only one on this thread who doesn't know it :)

Her DP certainly knows it - but how sad that he has reverted to stonewalling & manipulation, when he has had opportunity after opportunity to build on his communication skills & start bloody earning your daughter's regard.

Hope she is soon arranging another weekend at yours, mum? She needs enough distance from this user to see the wood for the trees ...

Another shout-out for the stupendous & wise Captain Awkward - good call, @candlelightsatdawn.

He does not have your interests at heart. It is your house get rid of him. You should not settle for anyone who isn't amazing to you.

You are 26 yet somehow you've been saddled with someone else's responsibilities and family and who isn't interested in your wellbeing at all. Where is your anger?

He’s done very well finding free accommodation for him and his kids

All he needs to do is stay just enough over the ‘he’s a nice guy line’ and you will question every reasonable thought in your own head.

As soon as you showed yourself as a responsible adult you became responsible for his kids welfare, housing, fill-in parenting aka free babysitter etc.

However nice he is he is freeloading and that is not what responsible adults do.

I wonder how he is when you need something?
When you are unwell?
When you want to take a holiday and he can’t afford it will you pay for him and his kids?

When he took the free ride it was HIM that took the risk that this was not a stable option for his kids. That part is on him.

OP he has basically refused to get divorced, albeit in a really sneaky way.

I just think you are financially propping up him AND his wife by extension and that’s wrong.

You said that he thinks that in return, in the future, he will support you when you need it. I’m not so sure. Right now he doesn’t even recognise that you’re supporting them all to the degree you are. I doubt he will feel like he “owes” you anything if something happens to you. Also, he has three children and a wife he is supporting- that’s a lot of resources, for how many years? Again I just doubt there will be much of a reward in this for you. He doesn’t even think you deserve for him to divorce his wife even though it clearly hurts you and you have literally asked him to!

At 26 financially stable with your own house you’re a big catch for someone and to be brutally honest you will easily find a man without any baggage. And I hate to say it but people have more than one “the one”!

Reading your updates I feel sad for you. I hope you won't throw your life away on this abuser. He targeted you when you were very young and vulnerable and has trained you to accept and excuse his abuse.

Your first observation is that he has no respect for you. Nothing else is relevant after that - this is not a relationship, it is one person exploiting and damaging another.

Submitting to coercive control and mistreatment is not what is meant when people talk of compromise in a healthy relationship.

So very sad. I wish you weren't living this way.

Hi everyone. You're going to be so disappointed in me.

I tried, gently and calmly, to clarify some things with him that were said in a blur last night. Mistake
Most of all I wanted to know if he really, truly believes that it is fair for him to ask me to wait for him to get divorced "when the time is right". When I was calm and clear headed I thought this would tell me if I could trust his compass - because I knew, I knew it is not fair to ask me that. So if he truly believes that, then I can't trust his judgement.

His argument is that it is fair, because I agreed to the deadlines (the first made when we first got together, engaged by the time I turn 30 with him divorced and debt free, and the second made a few weeks ago, divorce started by the end of next year). I don't remember exactly what I said to the second proposition but I know I didn't give "enthusiastic consent" as it doesn't sit right with me so I wouldn't have done that. But now I am unfairly pressuring him as I agreed to the deadline! I agreed. How can I argue back against that? Now I'm pressuring him so he now has to get divorced ASAP (February next year at the absolute earliest due to work commitments/Christmas/Birthdays). This is unfair of me to do, as he doesn't even want to get divorced but will do it for us.

He also says that I knew he was married when we got together (true) and that I knew what I was getting into. He said I chose him and I could have chosen someone else (also true, but it felt like a fate thing). He said that it's unfair for me to ask as it isn't me who has to do it, it's him, and in upsetting his relationship with his wife it may ruin his children's lives.

At one point I asked him what he thought about moving out, as that would negate my "holding my life back" concerns (and give me some space to think and make it less high stakes if we were to break up, though I didn't say this) He said "if I move out I ain't coming back", and then started telling me I pressured him into moving all of his stuff from his mum and dad's into my house - which I did encourage him to do. I wanted him to feel at home. What a fool I am. So fucking naive.

I feel heartbroken. I so desperately wanted him to be with me and to fight for us by communicating and reassuring me. He just sat there, looking straight past me and talking like he hated me while I bawled my eyes out. He just wanted to know how it ends. Arguing with him, especially this make or break stuff, is horrible - he's just so stubborn and stern and cold. We never make any progress (which feels like my fault - he's perfectly happy and I'm the one making problems). I just feel so isolated and upset and hurt afterwards I want to resolve it and stop fighting. So we make up. And he's happy again.

I'm sorry to have such a crap update. I don't want to be one of those people who asks for endless help and advice and doesn't act on it. My plan now is to leave it until after [the life stuff I can't talk about on here - mine not his], and see if he's done what I've asked. If he hasn't, easy. Done. I have no idea how I'd break up. I'd really struggle to do it on my own but he'd be so devastatingly cold and unfeeling because he'd be so angry I embarrassed him by having someone there. It would be so painful. And who would I want it to be?

You feel hollow because he is a leech, sucking you life out of you and giving nothing in return.

Interesting that the amount of debt he is in has changed. What clear evidence have you of his truthfulness?

Does he owe you money? Be prepared to write it off.

He says you have to decide whether you want him gone. Just tell him yes, you do. Have your mum there when you do it, just for safety.

Not disappointed in you. Just heartsore for you.

You know the answer. His not wanting to get divorced is still a million percent wrong. Dangling the engagement carrot is cruel.

You know all this. When you've done your stuff, get him out and do not worry about the cold and staring thing. Have your mum there. He's shown you who he is. Cold & manipulative and not committed to you as an individual. He's leeching joy and money from you.

OP, what’s it going to take for you to realise that this relationship isn’t right? What does he have to do? How bad will it need to get? Are you going to keep trying endlessly until you’ve trained him to say exactly what you want to hear, but with no real meaning or intention behind his words?

I wasted the end of my late teens and the majority of my 20’s on a relationship that needed this constant work and fine tuning, always trying to make him understand me and my needs, and him (deliberately) never doing it. I was so invested in fixing things and love and fate and thought all of our past traumas and arguments were fortifying when they were actually red flags. It took me the best part of five years to get over that relationship and recover my self worth and learn to stop trying to put scrambled eggs back in their shells. That took me to my early thirties, and before I knew it, the best years of my life had been spent in pain, trying to make myself understood to a man who never, ever had the capacity or inclination to do that.

There’s women the world over who have similar tales of regret, please listen to them and reclaim your life from this man.

He is like a conqueror colonist, isn't he? Sails in, raises flag, stakes claim, takes over, disrespects and exploits indigenous population (you!) stamps out rebellion.

When he talks about you ruining his children's lives (after just a few months? Come on!) he goes too far. Drama queen.

You are a hostage in your own home, and you're so young and hardworking! He is a blight.

Remember, you don't have to convince him or win an argument in order to end it. He'll never be convinced or let you win, will he? But it takes two to be in a relationship and only one to end it. It can be over whenever you say it is, just because you say so.

More like you must be very disappointed in him, op!

So, his huge effort in moving his stuff from his mum and dads means if he has to move it back, it is hasta la vista baby. He is an operator, I'll say that.

I suppose you were hoping to hear that he would do it no problem to give you space to work out your relationship and get it back on track. Because that is the important thing to him and he sees it as his future.

You got around the strict Covid rules by forming one household. Those rules are now relaxed, so there is no need for it.

Remember you need someone who you can depend on. Someone who has you somewhere in their priority list. Who listens to you and takes your needs seriously on board.

Posters who are better with this stuff will be along. I'm sending best wishes to you op.

"he doesn't even want to get divorced but will do it for us.

This tells you all you need to know. Sounds like he'd get back with his ex if he could. If he truly loved and cared for you he would want to divorce and move onto his next chapter with you. Also if he does divorce he will forever throw it back in your face.

He also says that I knew he was married when we got together (true) and that I knew what I was getting into."

Yes you knew he was married, but he said he'd divorce why debt free etc. He has/is dragged his feet. He wasn't truthful with you.

I could go on but he sounds very selfish and well experienced in exploiting people for his own gain. You deserve so much more.

He sounds quite cruel and manipulative op. You shouldn’t be made to feel guilty for wanting your boyfriend to divorce his wife. Bloody hell. You have not asked anything unreasonable. Forget his points waffling on about deadlines, what you knew when you first got together etc, he is just bullshitting beating around the bush because he doesn’t want to say out loud that he has no intention of divorcing the wife.

You are 26 and he is taking advantage of your good heart. He is horrible.

And don't worry about disappointing people on this thread. It's your life and you're in a difficult position. Although I would say don't sell yourself short.

Sorry (but sadly not surprised) to hear that he has disappointed you yet again OP

OP, please feel assured that I, for one, am not disappointed in you.

Coercive control is a total mindfuck. It leaves the abused party reeling, confused, on the back foot & persistently doubting themselves.

He said "if I move out I ain't coming back"
Upthread, I mentioned "brinkmanship" - & again, this is what he is doing here.
He is so confident in his control over you that he is prepared to risk his cushy free pad & your unending support services by using a threat designed to keep you compliant.

He just sat there, looking straight past me and talking like he hated me while I bawled my eyes out. He just wanted to know how it ends. Arguing with him, especially this make or break stuff, is horrible - he's just so stubborn and stern and cold

This is the real him OP. When you are ready, you need to face that.
Another classic response to coercive control is to minimise & deny it.
It's too awful to admit to ourselves that we are a victim, or being used, or disrespected, or spoken to with hatred & coldness - so we willingingly enter a state of cognitive dissonance, so we can "safely" ignore the behaviours & concentrate on the occasional sweet words.

You can only split when you are ready, & when this time comes -
I have no idea how I'd break up. I'd really struggle to do it on my own but he'd be so devastatingly cold and unfeeling because he'd be so angry I embarrassed him by having someone there. It would be so painful. And who would I want it to be?

Simple. Not easy - I am not being glib - but simple.

"DP, you still haven't addressed the things you know I want you to, I don't want to be your co-parent & home provider under these terms, & it's time for us to part."

Who would you have there? - your mum of course!
And, if he is going to be "angry", a male relative or friend.
So what if he is then 'cold, unfeeling, angry, embarrassed'? - it would do you & the loving folks supporting you the power of good to witness the real him. Sharing that experience would help you realise how his behaviours look to third parties, so help make this a reality for you. And your loved ones would benefit (unpleasantly, to be sure, but they do need to know) from understanding through direct experience the sort of shit you have been living through.

Kick him to the kerb, OP, kick him to the kerb.

He's show himself to be a selfish twat with zero consideration for your feelings.

You will always come last.

Free yourself and tell him to get out.

When you got together with him you didn't make a legally binding contract. You didn't make any sort of contract. I hope you can see this isn't right and this isn't what love is.

(February next year at the absolute earliest due to work commitments/Christmas/Birthdays) this makes no sense. He's split up with her. It's best for the kids to have it all formalised so there's no doubt.

I feel heartbroken. I so desperately wanted him to be with me and to fight for us by communicating and reassuring me. He just sat there, looking straight past me and talking like he hated me while I bawled my eyes out. He just wanted to know how it ends. he doesn't love you. He will not give you what you want. You don't have to leave him for a bunch of random strangers on the Internet, do it for you. If it takes you a while that's fine. You will heal from this. Stay safe. Who cares if he doesn't want your mum there, if you feel you can't do it unless she's there so be it.

What you 'promised' before means nothing in these circumstances. This is your LIFE you're dealing with here and you are allowed to change your mind as your life evolves. YOU ARE ALLOWED , I'll repeat it 'loudly'. What you were 'happy with' (or more likely coerced into) back then means nothing if you are not happy with it now. And you are not happy. You are in fact miserable. You may think you 'love' him, but love is not enough in your case, because it is one-sided. You give all, he takes all. He gives nothing, you get nothing.

His threat of 'I ain't coming back' is vile. And his 'reasoning' is nothing but gaslighting and obfuscation. He is emotionally abusing you, plain and simple. Emotional abuse isn't always name calling and hurtful words. It's also calculated and cold manipulation and emotional blackmail. And he is doing both.

Please, please contact WA or another group for abused women. You badly need to talk this out with someone who understands and can explain to you exactly why what he is doing is wrong. It's no different that if he pushed you or hit you. Abuse is abuse.

And absolutely not disappointed in you! It is not easy to leave this situations, you've made a massive step already!

@ZealAndArdour Well done, brave survivor xx