CMS and my income

[BaconAvocado]

Hi, does anyone know if there are any circumstances in which CMS would take into account my income for the calculation. DH is on a private arrangement with his ex at the moment and keeps being asked if I can help contribute towards things like school uniform and why he's not paying more as the DSC have told them I've got a new job.

Dss lived with us and his school uniform did not cost £225 and even if it did, we would have planned for it because we got maintenance from his mum. It's not an unplanned expense is it?

It's not a surprise!

You can do direct pay with CMS where they don't charge you except something like £25 to open the case. You only need collect and pay when someone doesn't pay and that's when you pay a % on top.

I think its a well known consensus that there is no fair way to calculate how much a non resident parent should pay towards his children with an ex partner.
CSM calculation will absolutely have its flaws ... its not half of the upkeep of a child. If you earn more, you pay more, does the child cost more if you earn more ?? so it is flawed. There have been hundreds of posts about this issue and it always opens up a big debate. I don't ever think there is a right / wrong answer as each and every family is different. Some NRPs will pay CMS set amount and not one penny more and others will contribute half of extras as well as CMS.
CM is supposed to be a contribution that is loosely worked out on (from what I'm led to believe from here in the past) the standard amounts that the government set and that would be receivable in a benefit claim. So when people say it is the bare minimum, I think this is what is meant by that. But we all know in reality this is not the case and life costs much more. The government don't assume people run cars, have travel expenses, pay insurances, watch TV etc.
Going back to your original post @BaconAvocado - you have unanimously been told your income is not taken into account for CMS purposes so that is definitely not a reason he should up his payments. Just because you have a new job, why does the ex automatically think you are now earning more ?
I think you mentioned in another post he couldn't afford the contribution towards the uniform this month, could he normally afford it? Has he had something unexpected to pay this month?
If, in general he would have contributed and the ex was happy with his £450 then a firm reminder to her that you are not liable for maintenance payments, your income is not part of the calculation and leave it at that. If she persists, then advise that CMS is always an option if she believes she isn't being paid he right amount. She cannot keep asking for more because you earn a wage.
If your DH wanted to make the contribution and HE asked you to help him out, or you offered, then that's a private discussion between yourselves and the ex would never need to know the details.
As I have said before, probably comes down to how you arrange your finances, what your stance is on helping him out as your DH, not that he should necessarily expect you to say yes, but I think it depends on a lot of factors. He knows uniforms are required, but blows a big chunk of £ on going out / a big purchase that could have waited vs, an unexpected car repair bill for example. I would be more inclined to help out if he couldn't afford due to the latter scenario as we would do it for each other.

2 skirts, 4 blouses and a blazer is £200 in our school shop

And that's not being bought every month is it. I agree some extra when school uniforms are being purchased would be best, but they aren't needed every single month. There may well be plenty of months throughout the year where £225 (plus whatever Mum spends too) per teenager is enough.

So when people say it is the bare minimum, I think this is what is meant by that

Yes agree. If you have a high earning NRP, the amount they pay in maintenance is not going to be the "bare minimum" it takes to raise a child. It could be much much more. Bare minimum in the sense that it's the absolute minimum they have to pay.

Their mum is capable of working more if she wanted to. It is not my fault she has chosen the lifestyle she has

Please do be careful with this bollox. You have no idea whatsoever as to what might be happening in someone’s life at a given time and the choices they might have to make. A few years ago I gave up a full time position in a workplace I knew would be unable to accommodate my personal situation - not only a single parent but also an only child with the remaining parent recently diagnosed with dementia. In other words, something needed to ‘give’ in my life to keep the balls in the air so I found ad-hoc work to see me through. Of course, my children were subjected to all the usual abuse in their father’s home about me being a lazy bitch who expects others to pay for my choices - bit rich from a man who’s never paid maintenance but hey ho, there’s no logic to him. As soon as my mum died, I of course found a full time job again.

If single-parenting and being topped up by either tax or universal credit, working full time can make you worse off. It shouldn’t and probably doesn’t on paper but with the reduction in other benefits and additional childcare, travel, work clothes, work expenses like lunch out on a Friday or chipping in for birthdays and leaving presents etc etc can make it additional hours not worth the hassle. And not every job can just provide additional hours when required (something these forums seem to think is a given).

I would suggest not judging other people’s choices, which may well be force of circumstances, when you are not close and don’t know what might be going on in the background. You have no idea what can happen in life.

I would suggest not judging other people’s choices, which may well be force of circumstances, when you are not close and don’t know what might be going on in the background. You have no idea what can happen in life

Oh I agree but it's funny how this never applies to the NRP.

@BaconAvocado another way of looking at it is, if your DH had that unexpected car repair bill and he couldn't afford it this month - would you offer to help him out whether that be by way of a loan or offering to pay it? Is it because its maintenance you're not keen to contribute? Just a hypothetical question.

@LookHerey

2 skirts, 4 blouses and a blazer is £200 in our school shop

And that's not being bought every month is it. I agree some extra when school uniforms are being purchased would be best, but they aren't needed every single month. There may well be plenty of months throughout the year where £225 (plus whatever Mum spends too) per teenager is enough.

Look at any of the online calculators for the costs of bringing up a child. Teens grow suddenly and unexpectedly and that means replacing school uniform. PE kit, school shoes, trainers, home stuff. They eat more than adults. I’m not convinced that there shouldn’t be a contribution to household costs and bills just because RP owns a house, it could be smaller and cheaper without space for the child. Most people wouldn’t think kids with parents on UC are well off but the basic rate is about £380 (with child benefit) and then there’s FSM, food vouchers, grant for uniform, funding for trips etc on top. So the government obviously don’t agree it’s an enormous amount to bring a child up on

I disagree. Any contribution by the step parent is voluntary and that is right I think. But if the other family was srtruggling then I would take circumstances into account when deciding to pay extra. Ifa DH had an elderly relative struggling and I had money then Id help out. Same for his child. But not if that person frittered money away on rubbish.

For those talking about housing costs etc for DSC, how often do you read on here about DSC not having their own rooms at the NRP house, how they have to share/bunk down somewhere when they stay, not worth having their own room (sometimes even a proper bed) as they are only there a few days a month. Whereas a RP wouldn’t get away with a spare corner in the lounge for the DC. I know that is not always the case but it is a common theme that crops up on MN

@toomuchlaundry

For those talking about housing costs etc for DSC, how often do you read on here about DSC not having their own rooms at the NRP house, how they have to share/bunk down somewhere when they stay, not worth having their own room (sometimes even a proper bed) as they are only there a few days a month. Whereas a RP wouldn’t get away with a spare corner in the lounge for the DC. I know that is not always the case but it is a common theme that crops up on MN

Right, and the flip side is precisely that the RP and the majority of posters on here go mental if the NRP doesn’t provide a bedroom and everything that goes with it.

On the one hand the RP often expects to keep the marital home, either till the DC are 18 or forever, if it has to be sold they expect the majority of the equity and the narrative is they have most of the residency therefore the NRP can rent a shitty bedsit. The needs of the RP and the time the DC are with them are paramount.

In a divorce the income pot that sustained one household suddenly has to maintain two and the NRP is expected to fund the existing lifestyle of the RP.

The trouble with a shitty bed sit and a NRP with much reduced circumstances is they can’t provide a room for each child, days out or holidays, new clothes or top of the range phones.

So sometimes they meet someone who isn’t also supporting another household who is happy to pay towards a bigger house, to buy somewhere, who can improve the opportunities the DC have when with the NRP, wants to pay for holidays and can top up Christmas and birthday spending.

And what do they get in return? Demands to pay for uniform and told they’re nasty and unfair for not voluntarily contributing a slice of the money they earn, some of which is already paying for the nice new house, the bedrooms and furniture.

Fucking. Ridiculous. And shows that no good deed goes unpunished.

The idea, in addition, that buying uniform in late August is in any way the same as a car bill is bloody hilarious. It’s not. Cars can need work done anytime. Back to school is a once a year event that should come as no surprise to a parent. And the RP in this case might have budgeted like all adults have to and put aside money for school essentials before gadding about with her new squeeze then claiming penury.

OP- totally agree your income is not part of the equation.

Likewise my income as RP is none of Ex and his new family's business either. His new DP felt that as a I had a good salary then he should not have to pay any maintenance and on the one occasion they took DCs on holiday for a week - my pittance was cut to cover the cost as I was not feeding then for the week.

She and he even went to the point of saying, when they had DCs on the weekends I worked (6 per year known in a year advance) that I had to deliver and pick up and pay them for the childcare they were providing!!!!

As to maintenance reductions - have no objection to a reduction if my EX has another DC with his new DP - what most RPs object to is the fact that unscrupulous NRPs can quite legally add the new DPS children into the equation and maintenance gets reduced on the spurious belief that he is paying for them aswell. eg, my ex has 2 dcs with me, joint dc with then new DP and she had 2 DCs of her own. Maintenance was dropped on the basis he was providing for 3 children aswell - that is not fair. So no it was not a £7 reduction ! So the poster who said SMs get the logic there is less monies available for maintenance, so do the RPs - just his previous DCs did not get any cheaper, so someone supports his new family by picking up the lost income because someone else made a choice out of their control.

Anyone who says school uniform is a one off cost for the year - quite patently does not have DCs that grow! 3 blazers, 3 changes of trousers and feet from a size 5-8 over one school year for on child, thankfully second child will benefit!!

I also love the double standard on she is living mortgage free without all the facts. Mutual friend of Ex and I ,did say to me once that Ex had gifted me the house. I nearly spat my beer - the tale was apparently - he moved out ( he did), mortgage was paid off 3 months after that. He then failed to pay maintenance for a nearly a year! I bought him out of the house and topped up his pension about a year later. Apparently that means he gifted me the house - not fucking likely. So do not believe all you are told. There was and is nothing angelic about my EX and maintenance and there still isn't even though we co parent amicably now he has left his second DP!

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

I would suggest not judging other people’s choices, which may well be force of circumstances, when you are not close and don’t know what might be going on in the background. You have no idea what can happen in life

Oh I agree but it's funny how this never applies to the NRP.

So true!

@AnneLovesGilbert but the question of housing usually comes up when the NRP have children with the new partner, so that child gets their own room but not the visiting DSC.

@toomuchlaundry

For those talking about housing costs etc for DSC, how often do you read on here about DSC not having their own rooms at the NRP house, how they have to share/bunk down somewhere when they stay, not worth having their own room (sometimes even a proper bed) as they are only there a few days a month. Whereas a RP wouldn’t get away with a spare corner in the lounge for the DC. I know that is not always the case but it is a common theme that crops up on MN

Or in my case I bought a bigger house than the RP who stayed in the marital home. I didn't need a bigger house, two spare bedrooms sit unused for most of the week and it costs more for us to live here than it did before.

I went to great expense to decorate and furnish the kids bedrooms (DH had to make do with what he could buy before I came along)

STILL...NOT...BLOODY...ENOUGH in the ex wive's book. She wanted more money from DP "considering you two are throwing it around now" .

@toomuchlaundry

For those talking about housing costs etc for DSC, how often do you read on here about DSC not having their own rooms at the NRP house, how they have to share/bunk down somewhere when they stay, not worth having their own room (sometimes even a proper bed) as they are only there a few days a month. Whereas a RP wouldn’t get away with a spare corner in the lounge for the DC. I know that is not always the case but it is a common theme that crops up on MN

And the overwhelming response is always that this is wrong, the DC should have their own room and space at the NRPs house, how rightly an airbed in the living room is not enough. They are often expected to provide the same in terms of housing as the RP.

Bills will inevitably be less if the children are there a lot less. But it is definitely a typical expectation that the NRP will provide adequate space in their home as well and they are often called out for not doing so.

This is it, isn't it. Nrp is expected to walk away with tiny share of marital home. Expected to pay maintenance and fund part of marital home. Expected to pay extras. Also expected to pay for new home and keep to same standards as prev home with bedroom for each child. On one income. Without any child related benefits.

How? Seriously, how? Because generally the only ways it's possible is if they're an extremely high earner which is rare, or they have a new partner who pays for most of everything else while they pay maintenance / extras.

I appreciate there are a lot of shit exs but there are a lot of good ones who are skint for many years trying to do their best. And they all get tarred with the same absent parent who's moved on brush.

@BaconAvocado solidarity fist bump from me... exw works two days a week despite dsds being teenagers. No health issues or other care reasons for it. The number of requests for maintenance increases since DH and I got together, on basis of our joint income, have been laughable. If any consolation, we've batted them all off and never any CMS repercussions!

is expected to walk away with tiny share of marital home. Expected to pay maintenance and fund part of marital home

Share of marital home is dealt with by the courts, or at least overseen and signed off by the courts. You can’t help the fact that for the majority, one parent has usually given up something to be able to facilitate having children. Post children lives do not run the same as pre children. If you want a 50/50 share of assets, you really do have to recognise that you have to do your share in marriage - and whilst I am sure there are men who do, the majority leave all things children to their wife. I am not sure why you would expect to receive an equal or greater share of assets in these circumstances.

Maintenance should be paid but every statistic I have seen clearly shows more maintenance goes unpaid than is paid and the average paid is around £25 per week. It’s not even going to touch the sides when it comes to childcare for 2 kids, is it?

And there is no expectation that an NRP funds part of the marital home. Although, I guess, in individual cases, additional payments may be factored Into financial orders.

No health issues or other care reasons for it

That you are aware of.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

This is it, isn't it. Nrp is expected to walk away with tiny share of marital home. Expected to pay maintenance and fund part of marital home. Expected to pay extras. Also expected to pay for new home and keep to same standards as prev home with bedroom for each child. On one income. Without any child related benefits.

How? Seriously, how? Because generally the only ways it's possible is if they're an extremely high earner which is rare, or they have a new partner who pays for most of everything else while they pay maintenance / extras.

I appreciate there are a lot of shit exs but there are a lot of good ones who are skint for many years trying to do their best. And they all get tarred with the same absent parent who's moved on brush.

And god forbid the NRP has a subsequent child. Surely if they can afford to do that they can also pay any extras the RP thinks her DC need.

Not in all cases, only if you divorce. Many people don't marry.

Again, you can't generalise and say "it's not enough for childcare" because everyone's circumstances are different.

And er yes according to this thread there is. The NRP should contribute to a roof over their children's head plus bills etc and obv the same in their own home so...

How many mothers want 50/50 or less with their DC when they split with the dad?

So often on here someone posts that their ex wants equally shared care or EOW and a couple of nights a week and is told to offer not an hour more than EOW and half the holidays and if they’re asking for more it’s not because they want time with their DC, they’re obviously only trying to get out of paying child support.

Marital assets are generally 50:50 on divorce and it’s very unusual for any spousal maintenance to be due. CSM is the only ongoing payment due, at what a 1/5 of salary for 2 children. That’s nowhere near enough to fund previous lifestyle is it? And it stops at 18.
I can understand why people don’t want to fund an adults lifestyle but surely you should want to fund a room in your house for your kids to stay. It’s not for your ex, it doesn’t affect them. I do t understand the attitude of getting out of paying for as much as possible but that’s irrelevant as OP partner is paying more than the minimum and chipping in for extras such as music.
OP just pay the £25 or whatever to get an official figure and shut down the complaints. It won’t take your earnings into account. Then you can show he’s paying more than required