Move from blended living to living apart together

[practicalcat5]

Name changed for this post.
Looking for any experiences of moving from living together as a blended family to living apart as 2 households again, and whether that worked for you? Or whether that was the end.
Have had 2.5 years of trying blended living with my two DC, my DP and his two DC - all between 10 and 13. It is has not been disastrous but it is still like 2 families in one house, and obviously many, many challenges. I would hate to live apart from DP but can’t help but wonder if it would lead to more overall happiness for the children. It would be financially very difficult though - and another upheaval for everyone.
It would be helpful to hear about anyone else’s experiences of similar?

Are you children actually unhappy with the current situation or is it just that it hasn't turned out exactly as you would like it to?

I will be watching this post. My partner and I, both single parents are waiting to move into together. Both children are boys aged 11 years. The right time never seems to come...we have been together 6 years.

‘Are you children actually unhappy with the current situation or is it just that it hasn't turned out exactly as you would like it to?’
If the children were happy I wouldn’t be asking the question!
There are some tricky dynamics between some of them which cause unhappiness, which we are working on and which may improve with time.
There is a big difference in parenting approach and general values between DSC’s other home and ours.
Similar issues which you frequently read about on this board.
I’m also aware we’re about to go through the trickiest bit of parenting in the teens.
Like I said it’s not disastrous (I don’t think I need to wait for that to wonder about all the different ways to improve things) but there is also unhappiness that wouldn’t be there if we were not all living together. Of course moving apart could cause its own problems and unhappiness - and it would be another huge change.
I’m just trying to step back and think with an open mind about all the options. And interested to hear from others who have made this kind of change - or considered it and decided not to.

Interesting thread. I have no experience of this but am watching with interest. I refused to blend after a 4 year relationship for a variety of reasons and instead tried to navigate a future of no marriage, no joint home, no joint anything really for the next 10 years or so (probably more knowing my exp and his situation).

It could have worked if we had both been able to focus wholly on us as a couple. An intimate partnership as two adults, with the children etc out of the equation. I was able to - as I have no conflict with my exh.

My exp was not able to - his time and attention continued to be absorbed with his needs around his children and the ongoing battles with his exw.
So whilst I was happy looking for a partner to meet my needs (my exh is very involved with our children so I’m not looking for a father figure for our children). My exp was looking for a ‘family’ and that togetherness.

When push came to shove; I realised that we were simply wanting polar opposites. Him a family, messy, with the children at the Center of everything (a focus fuelled by the conflict with their mother). I wanted a partner, a life away.
We both were sacrificing too much to try and make it work and for what? No financial support, little practical support and over time, less emotional support as we kind of became entrenched in our respective needs.

I think it can work. But it won’t be easy. And will require strong communication as a couple, ruthless prioritisation of your alone time as an adult couple and an acceptance that it will be harder (financially). On the flip side there will be two peaceful households.

Thanks for sharing your experience Sassbott - sorry it did not work out.
I can see the challenges in living apart - and don’t for one moment think it would be an easy solution.
It’s interesting that what might seem like fairly similar expectations of ‘family/home life’ at the outset - can be more different than you think once you are a few years in.
I have always had a very close relationship with my DCs - it has felt pretty natural and not something I have to think too much about. We are happy just to hang out together. If the father/dc relationship is more thought about - with a conscious effort to make things revolve around the kids more, in a new post-separation relationship where you’re blending families, those different approaches can be quite a hard dynamic to manage happily

Hi @practicalcat5. I've been split from my exdp for over a year now but previous to that we were together for 5 years. Ours were 18, 12 & 9 (mine), 14, 11 & 8 (his) when we first met.
His ex & kids lived in a different town to me & exdp always kept a property there. He also travelled a lot with work so while we never fully blended, he did live with me & my kids when he didn't have his & when he wasn't away working.
Initially we did all spend some time together but the kids had NOTHING in common & parenting styles were poles apart especially in his kids other household.
My kids did make an effort for my sake but his, encouraged by a lot of bad mouthing, bitchiness & negativity on the part of their dm, couldn't have been less interested. We persevered but being around both sets of kids at the one time was torturous for both exdp & me & we split after a particularly bad holiday.
I will say that the ages of the kids had a lot to do with it as teenagers can be tricky & not very interesting in putting themselves out for anyone. But, it was mainly issues with his ex that infected us via his kids that split us up.
Even though we were essentially lta his ex and subsequently his kids had NO respect for his non parenting time & even though exdp had gotten counselling & had really worked on his boundaries he kept getting sucked back in to every bit of drama created by his ex & kids. The very small amount of couple time we got was never respected & while exdp really tried he couldn't get over all the issues he had with his ex's parenting & our together time was just dominated by issues with his kids. It was exhausting.
My exh, his dw & I are more or less on the same page about the kids and parenting & I don't bother exh on my parenting time & vice versa - unless there's a specific problem we both just get on with it & respect each other's breaks from parenting. So I'd have eow to myself but would spend it as witness to exdp's dramas at his end & even if he turned off his phone his mood would have been affected. It was exhausting.
You've had some great advice from @sassbott & I would agree that in order for you to weather lta you and dp would need to be rock solid & on the same page as to the amount of headspace you give the children when on your couple time.
While lta was very difficult I will also say that I would not have wanted my kids sharing a house with his. That may make me sound awful but they were very entitled & demanding which given their ages was not acceptable to me & I really disliked how they treated exdp & how he (an otherwise sane, rational, confident man) kept falling off the wagon so to speak, & kept letting them get away with it, even though he knew it wasn't right.
I would say to you that if the kids aren't gelling now & if all the adults (inc their dm) are not somewhat on the same page regarding parenting & household rules the teenage years could be very hard & lat might be much easier mentally & emotionally. However if you do that you will have to be VERY protective of your couple time & dp & you would really need to be in agreement on that.

@practicalcat5 I am sorry too. But I view it (honestly) as quite a humble learning lesson. I will not date a man with younger children, or a man with conflict with his exwife ever again. I don’t care how much I like him or fancy him etc etc.

The term @Magda72 used ‘exhausting’ encapsulates just how draining these situations can become. The mindset (them remaining preoccupied on what should be couple/ adult weekends) can become extremely problematic and fundamentally erode the core intimacy of the adult relationship. For me personally? Didn’t matter what I did/ didn’t do - he bought a dark cloud with him everywhere. There’s only so long (as a female with my own needs around love and attention) can this be acceptable. They say they love you but then their attention pivots back to their children and the non stop drama.

The second part that became exhausting is the completely unhealthy balance between his parenting and mine. In my family (as you say) not too much thought is given to the children as opposed to we just get along as a family - chores, discipline and all the ‘family’ stuff just happens. No pressure to do or create anything. My ex would have his children and you would think that children rolled in platinum and encrusted with diamonds had arrived. There was just an expectation of what ‘should’ happen, because ‘my children’ (his words) were with him. That dynamic is fundamentally unhealthy and creates a two tier system within which the resident children somehow become less important simply by virtue of me seeing them more. No. Absolutely categorically not.

If either of the above are happening, blending (IMO) should be reviewed.

The key point for you is that this can work. But only if you and he are on the same page. A lot of men don’t want this - for as much as they fight for their children, in the next breath they want ‘family’ (aka someone else to help with the hard work of raising children). I don’t know about your partner but with my ex this sense of need around ‘my children’ was intensely powerful. Whereas for me, it wasn’t. That imbalance just lead to his needs not being met and boy did I know about it. He couldn’t fathom why I may not want to be as involved with his children - it was something he took intensely personally.

My point? You may be happy with this and able to do it. Your partner needs to be 100% on board and think it’s for the best too. A lot of men will resist a change like this as it means a step back and life becomes harder. Financially and day to day parenting. If he’s not on board, it may potentially be the beginning of the end as he begins to feel deeply resentful that (in essence) you are rejecting his family.

Depends how evolved he is emotionally and how strong his communication and empathy skills are. If high - you will be able to work through it. If not? It will be hard IMO.

If I was in your shoes, I would do the following:

1. have a convo with my DP and say this is something you are considering and your reasons why. I’m keen to know what his reaction is/ would be.
2. have a think practically and financially about what this looks like. Who moves out? Where to? What does the financial hit (of a one adult household) look like? Both of you should do this
3. expectations. If you move out and no longer blend, are their commitments? I.e is there a family holiday once a year? What are both sides expecting (this was also a big one with my ex, I couldn’t bear the thought of spending 7 days with his children, he was desperate for it. Even though my children didn’t want it). It became a bone of contention. What about christmases? Another significant ‘family’ time.
4. talk to your children (this one is tricky) but between 10-13, most kids are quite mature. Tell them your concerns (in age appropriate language) and say you are considering xyz and what are their thoughts? Make clear that you will take their opinions into consideration but ultimately the decision sits with the adults (who pay the bills). This one was interesting when I did it with my children and over time they basically stated that they were ‘ok’ with my exes kids coming over once in a while, but in the whole they preferred it when it was just us. And a large part of this was both how my ex behaved (entitled with a two tier system) and how the children behaved. They were eye opening conversations.
5. then take your time and think long and hard re the pros and cons. Lots of people make these situations work; sometimes they are deeply stressful. Sometimes not so much. But if on balance the wider relationship brings enough to the table, people grit their teeth and get through it.

Personally the decision I came too? At these ages we will blink and our children will be flying the nest. I would rather be in a smaller home, less support but have a peaceful happy home with no drama. I want to enjoy the next 5-10 years with my children, these ages are so much fun. (And challenging). Not have it punctuated by the drama and demands of another family, whose dynamic is so different to mine.

I’m sad. But I haven’t regretted my decisions once. My home is so peaceful and so happy.

Recently, I heard my aunt say of my cousin's blending efforts that my cousin brought great ingredients for making a cake and her partner brought great ingredients for making cookies and yet they were surprised when they did not end up with a pie.

Her point was that even fresh quality ingredients will not blend to make the dish that you are trying to create if they are not appropriate to the creation of that dish. Not all groupings are necessarily compatible.

If you are each capable of supporting yourself and your own children, why should living apart pose a financial hardship?

You.can continue to love and support each other, travel together , share friends and activities, etc. You can keep the positives while removing the stressors. If the relationship fizzles over time, that is no different than the statistics on many marriages. Few relationships are sustained simply because the couple share a home.

,

I’m in a similar yet different scenario. My DP of almost a year and I are very close, live incredibly nearby, both have our two DC’s 50-50 with our ex-spouses.
If we were child-free we’d like to live together but this just isn’t on the cards for us for a few years until our DC’s have left.
As families we’re fairly similar in terms of tastes, values, interests etc. However, we feel our DC’s have the right to live peacefully in their own homes with just their parent, and not to have to live with other young people they’re not related to. As we only have our kids half the week we both feel our time with them is precious and we wouldn’t want that to become time they have to rub along with another family not of their choosing.

So my DP and I are both happy with a LTA arrangement for the forseeable future: when we have the kids we do that totally separately (or occasionally we’ll meet for a quick coffee or board game), and when we’re childfree we prioritise spending that time together, cooking/sleeping/living together between our two houses equally. Our kids have almost no awareness of how ‘together’ we are as we like to keep our relationship entirely separate from our kids, and be 100% present just relaxing with our own kids in our own little houses when we have them. It truly feels perfect and I feel so lucky to have this scenario.

Thanks for all the replies
@Magda72 agreed about the need for boundaries with exes. DP’s ex def struggles with boundaries and has absolutely no respect for us as a couple. We have just about got to a manageable state of affairs with her now. A change would no doubt throw things open again in terms of testing the boundaries. I would say 3 out of the 4 parents involved are pretty much on the same page with parenting but she is not - and I know that could raise some tricky challenges as we hit the teens. @sassbott I can totally understand your current position about who you wouldn’t date and why. Only by living this can you really understand all of the stressors blending - whether in the same house or across two can bring.
There is a bit of difference between our parenting but it’s not huge, and I also don’t think we have as many clashes/difficulties between the kids as some other posters, but that doesn’t mean to say there are not some clashes that seem pretty deep rooted, and may be difficult to improve.
I’m not sure I’m ready for the conversations yet. The financial impact would not be equal. I’m actually in a better position for various reasons, but that does not make it any easier. I agree that having clear expectations of what comes afterwards would be needed. I’m pretty sure the conversation with my kids would be similar to yours.
@Tiredoftattler I like the cookie and pie analogy. Makes sense to me. I know it should be possible to keep the positives. But I think the process of actually moving apart could throw up all sorts of things that could be quite destructive. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the wrong step though.
@MuckyPlucky sounds like you have managed to strike just the right balance
All good food for thought - thank you. And interesting, maybe telling, there’s not actually been anyone commenting that they have successfully moved from one house to two.

@practicalcat5 for a period of time, I worked with a counsellor who specialised in step families.
It was a really insightful and interesting process, as she has been specialising in this for 15 years. In essence by the time people turn to her, they are struggling. So bear in mind she only sees a % of families in this situation.

But she commented that people move into ‘blended’ situations with dreams and a degree of naivety. In part amplified by the lack of real debate and insight in wider society about how challenging and fraught the concept of blending actually is.

By the time people come to her, a lot time a physical separation is impossible (as finances have been depleted by previous separations/ divorces), so people are very much stuck and miserable. One of her core pieces of advice is to not try and treat the family as one (blending is basically deeply challenging) but to treat two families (on your situation) as distinct families with their own needs. Then if two adults choose to have a ‘their baby’, that is family number three. With its own dynamics and needs.

So I think it is rare to see people move from blended to separate. In the main because financially and practically it’s challenging. Also, one side of the relationship is more likely to see it as a huge step back and not react well to it. That’s the part that requires robust communication skills and an ability to compromise and see the bigger picture. I don’t think it’s easy.

But if you can afford it and it’s an option for you? I would do as you have said and continue to consider it? Perhaps an interim option may be to work with a counsellor? But only one who specialised in step families. Talking to someone independent may help give you strategies / tips to help you figure this out.

It is challenging when all parents cannot work together. My situation was identical to yours. 3 out 4 were on the same page. My exes EXW was just out to wreak havoc and interfere as much as possible. All I saw ahead were exceptionally troubled and conflicted children. Coming into contact with settled and quite well adjusted children (much easier to achieve when two parents aren’t at war with one another).
As you probably know (and what started this post), you can see a future of the compromises coming from your side and impacting your children. None of this is easy.

@sassbott that is interesting that the counsellor advice is not to try and treat the family as one but to treat the families as separate. Fortunately no risk of complicating things further with a third family in our case!
That advice runs quite counter to what my DP wants to do which is to try and bring everyone together and create one family. I have actually become more resistant to this over the time we’ve been living together - despite my comment in my op suggesting I think being like 2 families is a negative thing - I kind of thought it was generally viewed that way. I actually think the most important thing for my DC is to maintain their relationship with me. They’ve lost so much else, I don’t want them to lose that, and I don’t want to lose it either in favour of a construct that feels really forced. They are not going to appreciate it if I suddenly start focussing more on DP’s kids. That’s not to say I don’t think it is important to do things all together/ have fun together when we can, and it’s not that I don’t think it’s important to build a relationship with DP’s kids. It’s just the most important thing to maintain is the relationship between me and my DC - and that takes up quite a lot of my time and energy (in a good way)
Im concerned about like you say, one side seeing a huge step back, and that not ending well. As in every other way I am v v happy in my relationship with DP, and I think he is well-intentioned in all of this. It’s just his relationship with his DC is different (of course) - and I think he has high expectations/hopes of what we can achieve.
If we could live a bit more like thinking of ourselves as two families - and me not feel bad about it and like I’m doing it all the wrong way - then maybe I would not be where I am.
I obviously felt like I considered all this carefully before we moved in together. But it is so hard to know what it will be like until you’ve lived it. All the small things that mount up and the everyday dynamics. Also the impact the EXDW of your DP can have on your children indirectly - and how awful that can be, particularly if it is someone with totally different values to you who is also very manipulative - although I guess that can still be the case, although probably nowhere near as much, if you’re lta.

I think your plans send the message to your children that their happiness and sense of safety at home is your priority and that's a wonderful thing. You have the rest of your life to live with DP when the DC are less dependent x

I found it interesting too which is why I shared it.
Your comment re your DP ‘forcing’ one family also comes as no surprise to me. I had the exact same scenario. It can start to make what should be easy and natural actually quite stressful.

In my world nothing stops when my children come and go. The world does not rotate around them. Rather everyone’s needs get met (mine and theirs). Equally my time and attention with them is precious and I only have a finite amount of both. So I have (in my family) a very natural dynamic. Nothing is forced. When my exes children came, there was pressure, to play with them/ make an effort/ have fun. Which I could understand from his perspective. But for me? It’s started to feel like a burden/ an obligation. Of course I spend time with my children, but it tends to be when chores / work is done. And 9 times out of 10, they’re pitching in with the chores. But no one is telling me what I ‘should’ do with my children. I let it go too far and should have addressed it sooner. As I basically completely stopped enjoying time with them. Because of my exes expectations around what ‘family’ should look like.

It’s why I said, a step back could work - but only if both sides can see the reasons. Be wholly bought into it and fully supportive of it. Vs this notion of trying to recreate the waltons of everyone doing things together and enjoying summer holidays and christmases together.

My children don’t want to share me (or my attention) on our rare holidays. I work fulltime and am pretty close to 60/40 with the ex (and at times it’s 50/50). So our time matters. They don’t want other children diluting that. Also they have different interests, so we would do very different things to what my ex would do with his children.

You’re not wrong in any of this. And if you can (and he’s open to it), see if he would attend counselling with you? My ex did with me.

But ultimately? His need for family and his expectations just became too much. Whereas I wanted him to parent his children away from me. Me to do the same. And for us both to fully invest and enjoy each other as a couple.
He was too enmeshed in the ‘family’ and completely unavailable outside of that.

The EXW exacerbated it by non stop conflict and manipulation of the children. Exhausting situation.

My only piece of advice? Don’t wait for this to magically improve, it won’t. The concerns you have now? They won’t lessen. All that will happen is your resentment will grow as you feel more torn at the very real need of focussing on you and your children, but being expected to encompass your time and attention across all the children.

Like I said, it’s not easy. And as hard as it is for me to end my relationship, I genuinely am relieved for me and my children. I know I’ve made the right choice.

You will too. Keep posting if you want advice.

I just want to reiterate by the way. You are not in the wrong. Your children need your time, your attention and for you to be happy. Pre teens / teens. They become independent and easier in many ways. But they need to know we are available for them.

One of the other things that struck me in your post is re your children having already lost so much. It’s so true. In my relationship because I had an amicable relationship with my exh and saw my children more than my exp saw his; I became the ‘lucky’ one. Yes my children are more stable than his and I am intensely lucky to coparent so well with my exh. But my children have still suffered a loss, their parents divorcing. They are still the children of divorce and as such they do have a degree of emotional need that I want to be fully available to meet. Not be bogged down by children who are much higher emotional needs because of the conflict between mummy and daddy (that has nothing to do with me).

None of us could have foreseen these issues tbh. I certainly couldn’t. I saw the counsellor for perhaps 18 months on and off. When I saw her a few months ago and asked her if ‘I was wrong’ (re my decision to never want to live with my exp), her response was ‘when I met you, you had dreams. They were great dreams, based in good intention. Now, you’ve hit the cold hard reality of step parenting, especially when there is one party not prepared to make it work. This is reality, blending in these situations becomes intensely challenging. Your set up (of separate homes) could work. If your partner is happy with it.’

It’s hard. I know. We build these new relationships with such hope. Then the reality (of the EXW) really kicks in. Sad really. But it’s why they do it. They hate the thought of their children going to another home that is happy, so they do their level best to destroy it.

Interesting thread, this. I think the best thing for everyone is to have relationships which are natural, not forced. Blending is often asking a lot of people who have all (in their own way) suffered a ‘loss’. Replacing one loss with another. Too much pressure.

In my case I have a great relationship with DP. He lives here with me and my dc.

His dc are cut from a different cloth, such is the difference between their family and mine. They are welcome and everyone gets on. But the possibility of blending (and they are late teens, one is technically and adult) is nil.

Therefore DP and I keep separate finances and houses. His dc come, and when they come, they are guests, not step dc.

And that’s best all round. It’s a set of natural relationships. To try and be ‘one’ family would be too much.

That said, we do stuff, and holiday together. Possibly that’s because the relationships aren’t forced.

And his exW is a pain and an ineffective parent but doesn’t sabotage my relationship with DP. So we are all doing ok as we are.
I get to focus on my dc and provide stability and consistency. Something I fiercely defend.

@practicalcat5 my exdp attended counselling for around a year & as we were planning on getting engaged at that point, she asked me to come to the initial 4 sessions which I did.
As in @sassbott's experience she advocated not blending teenagers & certainly not blending our teenagers given their personality differences & their differing experiences of divorce.
She was very child centric & was actually quite brutal in her assessment of things. She said a lot but I'll try & condense it.
She highlighted that when exdp & his exw divorced THEY made the decision that she would be the sah rp & he would be the financial provider & as such an inequality regarding the division of parenting had been established from the start.
Therefore as a result the dc's perception of 'home' is that it was with their dm & that exdp trying to establish a second 'home' with me or alone, to 'rival' their actual home was pointless given their ages and established routines.
She said exdp was fully entitled to establish a 'home' with me that would comprise of me, him & my dc when they were here, but that he had to get his head around the fact that given the decisions his exw & he had made at the start of their divorce plus the ages & personalities of the dc that his dc would not be a part of that 'home'. She said he had to face up to the fact that having chosen the parenting route THEY chose that he no longer lived with his dc; that they lived with their dm & that expecting me & my dc to fully embrace teens who did not want to live in our house with our rules when they had everything they could ask for at their dm's was madness, & that in no way should I change my parenting to suit his dc as my parenting was working very well for my dc.
She fully appreciated that exdp was struggling with how his exw was parenting their dc but she kept reiterating to him that nothing could change the fact that SHE was their dm & that they shared her DNA & that all he could do was parent his way on his time. She reckoned there was emotional neglect & parental alienation but that couldn't be proved & that the only practical solution to reducing her influence (given that she refused to work & dp had to work) was boarding school. He suggested this to the two youngest (who for the record were always moaning about their dm) but they flatly refused to go.
She also spoke about how there are different ways to be a good parent & that his solo financial provision, mortgage payments for his exw, presence at school meets & events, his taking them on all their holidays, his teaching them how to drive & his always honouring his eow & holiday access did deem him a good parent; that he didn't have to live with them ft or even 50/50 or recreate family life for them in order to be a good parent.
She said given his circumstances she really felt that he WAS providing them with a home via paying the deposit & mortgage on their home with their dm & supplying all the money for both their day to day expenses & the extras, & that he was not a Marvel superhero; that he couldn't do everything & that the most that he should expect of himself is that he provide them with a 'good enough' home when he saw them (which he did) but that this home did not have to recreate happy families.
In fairness to exdp this all really helped him & diminished his guilt & helped him discipline more but as I've said on here previously the damage had been done with his dc at this stage. Two were older teens who had adopted their dm's attitude to exdp & they baulked at him showing any desire to have a life that didn't solely revolve around them.
I think so many men struggle with not being the rp that they fully believe that they can recreate what they once had with another woman/family but it just doesn't work like that. EVERYONE loses their innocence/naivety in divorce & I firmly believe the only way to move forward & be happy it to acknowledging this. In my case I did, my exh did & my kids did & we're all the better for it. We acknowledged & dealt with the sadness & we named the losses. For my kids that meant telling their pals & teachers that their parents had separated & crying in my arms over missing daddy & me crying too along with them & many other things.
By the time exdp & split he had gotten to this point but his exw & dc were still stuck in a time warp - both she & the dc still told their schools they were married!!!
Sorry this is v long but I just wanted to highlight that people can be good parents without providing a 'new' home for their dc but I think it can take people & certainly nrdads a very long time to get their heads around this stuff & unfortunately it's often their new partner & her dc who get caught in the crossfire.
I think moving from blended to lat can be done. Exdp & I could have done it as we had more or less reached the same page, but unfortunately given the ages of his dc & all the water under the bridge the changes he would have had to effect in his attitude to his dc & exw would have caused ww3 & I'd have still been the one dealing with the fall out.

Nail on head, @Magda72

Acknowledging and naming the losses. So important.

When I held dd2 in my arms as she cried ‘who am I if you and dad are not together’ the seering pain on both our parts gave us a ‘ground zero’ to build on. We have all named the deep losses and moved on. My relationship with exH is boundaried. Friendly and cooperative but not friends.

In DP’s case they split, but then moved across the road from each other and were in and out of each other’s homes, spent Christmases together, went on holiday together. This creates a climate where losses aren’t really acknowledged. On the surface the ex spouses are ‘friends’ and it ‘seems lovely for the kids’ but things are a bit messy really and it’s hard to make something boundaried. That approach can say more about the adults and their failure to face things head on than it does for the children.

Either that, or there is masses of conflict/parental alienation/hostility to a new partner.

Both of these scenarios are ways to avoid what is really much more healthy: naming and grieving losses, and moving on.

Goodness that is so very interesting @Magda72

That counsellor sounds superb and robust. Interestingly enough I had similar conversations with my ex. They too had made the decision for him to continue to work and her become a SAHM. So that same dynamic was in place with them. When they separated she deeply resisted (and continued to resist) any attempts for him to get involved as a more hands on parent. Pretty much saying in court - I’m the mother, this is my role that we agreed on, he needs to earn the money and write the cheques.

When I too would say to him, she’s their mother. They have an intensely close bond with her. You cannot even begin to try and compete with what she has with them, the best you can do is be available for your children, when you see them and give them constancy and some normalcy. He couldn’t get his head around it. When I directly asked him if he thought he had as much influence over this children as his EXW. He replied ‘of course I do.’ Completely inability to see the reality in front of him and accept his life for what it was and is. He was myopically obsessed about competing with her and building a ‘family’. Despite my saying, no one but you wants that. Your children don’t. My children don’t and I don’t.

But he couldn’t see past that and I think magda is spot on. A lot of NR fathers cannot get past this.

Funnily enough I offered the same magda. I said, do you think you could live with me, my DC and live a life with this family. And your family with your children is separate in your home. His response? I can’t have a home that is not my children’s home. Which I understand. But he couldn’t emotionally separate the two. And he may have done it if I had taken him at face value; but underpinning that would have been huge resentment.

This sense of ‘one family’ was huge for my ex. I wanted no part of it and I simply came to the conclusion that I was far better off letting him go so he could find someone who wanted what he wanted. And was willing to embrace his children as theirs.

Thank you for this thread.

My two dc and I have been living with my partner and his two dc for seven months now but I have just told him the three of them need to move back out. I adore him and my children are sad about the prospect of him moving out but by the same token my children do not want to live with his children. That's not them being nasty, it's there are so many issues that have arisen from all living together and it can be a really tense environment here. We parent so differently, he wants us all as one family too but I just do not see how it can be that way, and nor do I want it to really - I still want to do things with just my two without anyone else for a start, they are my children!

I just want a peaceful home, so my two are coming first. I know I am risking the relationship taking this huge step back but three out of the four children are under ten and I cannot live like this for years.

I can’t have a home that is not my children’s home.
@sassbott my exdp said EXACTLY the same thing, in counselling, in one of the sessions I was at.
The counsellor looked at him straight on and said "irregardless of being with Magda you don't have a home that's your children's home, at least not in the way you mean it. You gave that up the day you and your exw split & you further gave that up the when you both decided she would be a sah rp & you would be the out at work nrp." Then she added, "what you do have is a different sort of home; a space to see your dc eow & holidays (he maintained a small property where they live) & that is good enough given that you have provided them with a home with their mother. Why are you chasing something you cannot have? That boat has sailed."
Needless to say there was a long silence after that one but it actually did him the world of good hearing that from a professional. He still fought it for months but in fairness he kept seeing her & she really did put him through his paces.
I do think if he had sought counselling right after his separation when the dc were younger we would have stood a much better chance.
Maybe counselling should be mandatory for all separating parents?

@Whodofthunk that’s intensely brave of you.
How did your DP take that news?

@Magda72 that counsellor honestly sounds amazing. That’s just a degree of blunt honesty and pragmatism that I wish more people would have in these situations.
My ex would even (on occasion in frustration) say ‘why won’t you do xyz with me (attend a nativity for example).’ When I dug further it transpired that she drags her fiancé to everything school / child related so he wanted to do the same. Or at least have some form of support. Whereas his children didn’t want me there, the ex certainly didn’t want me there and I really did not want to be there.

But he couldn’t see why the exes set up with her fella was so different to his set up with me. He was hooked / desperate in this idea of ‘family.’ With no sense of cold reality. The only family his children want and need (given their time is limited), is Him and his undivided attention. They do not need another home with different rules / parenting and children whom they are not related to interfering in their time with their dad.

In his shoes I would have been absolutely content, but he couldn’t separate the two. And truthfully? I don’t want to share my home and my life with someone who just can’t accept their lot in life and live life to the fullest regardless.

I don’t see my children 50% of the time. I too have suffered a loss. I choose to spend that time in as fulfilling a time as I can. I can do that because I have accepted my loss in life and adjusted.
So I can lead a full life with my children and without my children. I love my work, have a small but loved circle of friends. And have the appetite to learn and grow and travel. I genuinely love my life. What’s happened has happened, I cannot change the past. So I accept my lot in life.

A lot of these men get stuck.

I have kind of done this, although there are only children on one side (mine). We lived together for four years and have been "living apart together" now for eighteen months. Happy to answer any questions.

@sassbott it went down like a lead balloon and has caused various arguments since, but I just want our space back. The dynamic doesn't work, if they were school friends invited for a play and dinner they never would have been invited back